Question about sound (please be kind)...

I hear what you're saying - though I'm not sure my problem is exclusive to vinyl, but we'll see.

Incidentally, the elys2 on my RP3 inexplicably died after about 8 months - the suspension collapsed somehow. I swapped it for a Dynavector 10x5 and it was a whole new world. Something to try perhaps before moving to a RP6? 

Hi, I think as John said above, this is about positioning and reflections. I have similar experiences in the past, especially with flat screen TVs between speakers.

My suggestion (what worked for me); bring speakers forward of the TV, ideally let the back of the speaker cabinet be at least in line with the front of the TV. (Remember sound eminates and refracts from the enclosure.. Not just the speaker drivers). Try and get the speakers firing down against a defused surface - soft furnishings or un even walling. Use acoustic panels behind the speakers... and finally careful position of speakers with respect to TV, you might find this quite sensitive. Get this right and the dynamics, mids etc should return, and interestingly by addressing reflections you will start to hear a whole load of natural detail, rather than forced detail. It will allow the music to breath and sound far more enjoyable.

Refelections really can wreck an audio system, and that includes between speakers. (In my experience at least)

Simon

thanks for these tips - will definitely give them a go. 

I have my doubts that this is about positioning with the TV,  yes for sure it will help to optimise any negative reflections, but I have doubts its the problem as you have described it  -  e.g. "way back in the mix".

Items like nearby reflective items such as walls, TV & fireplaces affect the 150 to 350Hz region. It will typically have a primary suck out around 250Hz & a raised level below that into the bass region.  We humans don't pick up much direction or presence information from this region. Presence & stereo information is from the 1000 to 2000Hz region.

But plug away at the TV & speaker positioning as it can be made better.  I've lived with a small low fireplace area & yes it does have an affect - I've studied how to fix it (to death) - & TBH I've become accustomed to the narrow -2dB attenuation at 250Hz.  But nothing is "back in the mix".  

How did you get on with your phase checks ??

Most likely this is indeed a mix issue rather than anything else. That said, things I would check:

* Are the fronts of the speakers in the same line or in front of the front edge of the TV? If not, can they be placed such that they are?

* Are the front edges of the speakers on the front edge of the TV cabinet or behind it (i.e. is there a bit of shelf space in front of the speaker?) If so, you might find an improvement simply by moving them to that edge, if possible. It's to do with destructive refraction off that surface.

* if the TV cabinet has the speakers fairly low (stands are normally 60cm tall), can you raise their front edge so they are angled a bit more directly to the listening seat? just a few degrees might be enough to offset the diminished treble output.

* The sorbothane feet may be good and may be bad for the results, difficult to say. Same goes for Neat's recommendation. Also try sticking the speakers to the TV cabinet with blutac. However, this latter might affect the picture quality as the speakers would inject more vibrational energy into the cabinet causing the TV to vibrate.

* Linn K20! Thing is, Naim NACA5 has more presence and drive which could affect you badly. Normally I'd have started off with this as the issue since Linn K20 is a bit warmer and 'plummier' in the bass as well as a bit rolled off in the treble than NACA5. However, if you gain drive and power, this might give you too much reaction in bass power. I hesitate on this one since it would cost you money to fix, but your dealer may be able to lend you some NACA5 to try at home. If they can do that, then I'd definitely try it. I've also assumed you have short lengths of cable because of the placement and the aesthetic requirements. Shorter lengths tend to be less successful than the more usual 3.5m a side, even with more modern Naim items that are less cable-dependent. Still worth a try though in my view.

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

Definitely ok - and i'm beginning to think that it was a particular track or album that was deliberately mixed that way, and the presentation I am getting from my speakers is just portraying it. but it's of course got me curious enough to try and see if I can improve things. 

So the depth of the unit i have is probably about 40cm, and the speakers - which are 20cm deep - are sat a little further forward on it than centre. The TV is pretty much centred front to back, so closer to the rear of the speakers than the front - if that all makes sense. 

Do you suggest there'd be improvement having the tv line up with the front of the speakers? 

The height of the unit is 50cm, so they're 10cm short of optimum if stands are generally 60cm. I've got foam mats (designed for the purpose of placing speakers on) as recommended by Neat - and I imagine they're at least 5cm thick / high so we'll see how it affects everything. The TV vibrating isn't a concern as it's not on when the music is on etc. 

The reason I have k20 is that I can't afford the lengths of naca5 that I'd need, and I bought k20 as it was recommended to be used with the old NAP90 I previously had. I think I've got 2x5m runs? 

Update: 

So I've got home with the foam underlay things that I was recommended. Ive got rid of the feet that I had under the speakers before too. The foam is about 4cm thicker, so I've now got the speakers approx 3cm higher than I had before. Let me tell you it's night and day. Guitars are flying out now, vocals projecting forward etc. It's miraculous actually.

The unfortunate part of this is that for some reason the Naim app has ceased to find my UQ now. No restarting of the UQ and / or router seems to work even though the UQ is definitely on the network, as it can see both my NAS, Spotify etc etc. 

One step forward...! 

Good news! So sort the app, kill it by swiping off the top of the screen, then restart it. That usually works. If not, turn the Qute off and on once you've restarted the app. 

tried that - nothing  

now trying to diagnose everything as per a sticky suggestion post in the Streaming forum

Try completely uninstalling it, and reinstalling from the App Store. 

I've got it working now, needed to restart my bridge router. 

It was so much easier when we just put a record on!

Still can, but you have to make sure its clean!  Oh and the turntable rack is isolated, and the turntable is level, and the cartridge is set up right...speakers are close enough to the wall, no toe-in...

Interesting, I do find SX3s to be the most finicky of that series to set up. It's possible that the extra 3cm was enough to change the angle for beneficial effect I guess.

I was not suggesting placing the TV in line with the fronts of the speakers. I was suggesting the fronts of the speakers should be in line with the TV or ahead of it, as you have now. the other suggestion was to place the fronts of the speakers on the leading edge of the TV rack to avoid reflections.

The UnitiQute does not need a particular length of speaker cable - you don't need 3.5m a side. It helps but it's not required. I think you'd be surprised what a difference it would make to go to NACA5.

I do have another thing to check which I'd forgotten. If it's modern is the TV (and any other modern devices such as sky box, PVR etc) plugged into the power on the same block as the Naim? If so that would be hurting the sound quality because those devices use a switched mode power supply which pollutes the mains. If you can, plug the UnitiQute directly into the wall or at least plug all those other devices into a common block between them and have the Naim plugged elsewhere. Those devices are noisy so if you have a purified block put them on it, but NOT the Naim which will suffer.

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

Yeah, I find the fronts of speakers when in front of the TV panel and NOT in line definitely improve. Might depend on speaker and how they refract / radiate sound. I have found backs of speakers inline with TV optimum

Simon

The change, as I said, is miraculous and like night and day. Very much enjoying things all over again - and if I'm frank and honest with myself I was never fully happy with the SX3s out of the box at home, as opposed to what we heard when we demo'd them in the store. I just put it down to breaking in taking a long time.

I think the next thing I do will be a NAP 100. I'd be REALLY curious to hear the benefit! I have a dealer in Huddersfield that whilst i've never bought Naim new, I might be persuaded to and hope he might loan me a NAP100. 

Cable would follow.

And yes, I have the UQ on its own socket in the wall. 

I tried a Nap 150X on my UQ1

it improved on power only, anything else not

my speakers and listening levels are not an issue

off it went

Hmm, the NAP100 would bring about some extra power which I think the SX3s would relish. Difficult to say how MUCH of an improvement it would be, especially given the restriction of speaker placement.

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

The nap100 is a little bargain in my view and added more of everything to my qute2 but I know many on here have preferred the Qute without so an audition is sensible

Think of the power amp as a generator.

Think of the speakers as a city. The load being the number of inhabitants.

Think of the impedance curve of that load as the inhabitants consumption variation over a day.

A speaker with an 'easy' load is a city with relatively few inhabitants who use power at different times. A big power amp is a generator that can 'ride' high consumption and a large number of inhabitants.

An amplifier can be 'embarrased' by lack of power for a few milliseconds in every second and produce easily audible distortion or artifacts. The sound produced by a speaker cone can slosh around the room like a wave and 'push back' on the cone surface. An amp with power reserves will 'grip' the cone better, it is common that a step-up in power amp performance causes a tightening and improvement in bass response 'in room'. More power would lead the lay person to think the bass would overwhelm and cause more problems, the converse is usually found.

Hi. A few days ago I was inquiring about speaker cables and whatnot. Long story short, I'm gathering money for a Nap100, since I think it makes a quite noticeable improvement to the UQ2 - the soundstage is way more 3-dimensional, bass goes deeper but better definition, whilst music retains cohesion. Anyway, I found the UQ2 really dull without the NAP100. Also, I have problems with loose bass in my room, and I also don't wanna disturb my neighbours. So one day I called my dealer to ask for another home trial with Chord Rumour 2 cable (I'm using Focal Aria 906 btw), to trial them versus Anticables Performance line. As I was explaining stuff to my dealer, he said he thinks he might have a sollution to my problem, and gave me a pair of DNM Reson cables. I still have them, and if they'll also match the NAP100, they're keepers. Music is clear, but very cohesive, bass is there, but controlled, and highs are sweet (some might want some extra zing, but in my room, it's amazing).

So give these a go, you might like them. Also, I'd like to mention that I didn't like NACA5 at all with the UQ2 or NAP100 - they might be well suited for NAP200 upwards, haven't tried it though.