Help shape the BBC

I've just spent a month or so in Canada. I know exactly what "tripe" television can be and likewise radio.

Be grateful we still have the BBC. We need to encourage it to revive its standards upwards, for sure, but even as it stands, its head and shoulders better, overall, than any other broadcaster that i've seen or heard.

Cheers

Don

I get sick to death of hearing people whinge about the "tax" for the BBC. £12 per month for the finest radio and TV on the planet is a very small price to pay. Listen to BBC radio only - it's free, nothing, zilch.

Let's consider "free to air" & subscription commercial TV.

Where does the money come from for a "free" service ? Billions are spent on TV & radio advertising every year and someone must be paying for it.

The "advertising tax" is paid on every product and every service that every man, woman and child in the country pays for. It's on your household goods, it's on your fuel, it's even on the non-taxable (zero VAT) goods you buy. To summarise ...

1) BBC - £12/month. You can opt out if you wish (as one on this forum chooses to do).

2) Free to air commercial - "free". But you cannot opt out. Stop watching TV but you'll still be paying the advertising taxes.

3) Subscription commercial TV - pay your £400+ per year and pay your advertising taxes. Double whammy.

The question arises - do the advertising taxes amount to more than £145/year ? Depends on your total annual household spend but I would be very surprised if it was less.

Don't talk to me about the (optional) BBC tax without discussing the (non-optional) advertising taxes.

"Don't talk to me about the (optional) BBC tax without discussing the (non-optional) advertising taxes."

The BBC Tax [License Fee] is not optional if someone wants to watch any live television broadcast in the UK. This is the part that is an annoyance to those who have no interest in the television output of the BBC but may have an interest in watching Sports on Sky for example. 

I have opted out of the TV License by not watching any television here at all. And I further abstain from watching delayed video streams via the BBC iPlayer, because I see that this as being wrong. However it would be legal.

As for the cost of advertising, almost everything that can be bought has an element of cost in its price based on the advertising budget. This applies to everything whether to do with broadcasting or not. It has little relevance to a discussion on the future funding of the BBC. 

____________

As for the BBC License Fee being a small sum of money [£145 P.A?] then compared to other news and  television media, this is true, but  even £5 can be a huge amount of money if you do not have it spare. 

In my view the enforcement of the Tax is already becoming impossible because anyone [in the UK] who owns a computer with a decent broadband connection has the potential to watch live TV.  The old days when one had to buy a television set to watch TV, and give the name and address so that the License Authority could cross-reference to check that there is a suitable current license for that address is long since passed.

Someone has to come up with an enforceable way of collecting the money required to run the BBC if the organisation is to continue. And this new levy needs to be seen as fair rather than a Tax on watching non-BBC TV, but related entirely to watching the BBC output. 

In the modern situation where there is huge choice, why should the BBC have a unique Tax on watching the output of an independent TV broadcaster?

That is the crux of it as far as I can see.

ATB from George 

As dear Joni said "You don't know what you've got 'til its gone" - I wonder how she is?

I watch a very limited amount of (Freeview) TV and listen to Radio Four in the car. The HD rolling BBC TV news channel is excellent to keep abreast of what's happening and I regularly enjoy 'The Papers' reviews late evening. I consider 40 pence per day to be fantastically good value, to not have a TV or radio programme I am enjoying, ruined by moronic ad-breaks.

I really don't understand why the Beeb gets such bad press.

John.

"I really don’t understand why the Beeb get such bad press."

Dear John,

As you say, you enjoy the output of the BBC on television, so the price is small for you. That is fair enough. But why the BBC gets a bad press is simple. If you never watched any of the BBC output but only that of independent TV broadcasters, for whatever reason, then you might feel somewhat annoyed by the fact that you still had to help finance the BBC by buying a TV License, even if you never watched anything from the BBC. It really is simple. The unique status of the BBC is not sustainable nowadays. 

I think if the BBC Fee allowed for the watching of BBC only, and other television services were not taxable to the benefit of the BBC, then the proposed BBC only License Fee income would probably not decline all that much. Some people would no doubt be content to watch TV with adverts and be free of the Tax, but many people rather like not having adverts, and the BBC would then be funded fairly.

ATB from George

But the point is that you have opted out of the BBC tax (whilst watching it at a friends house and listening to its radio stations).

I cannot opt out of paying for ITV & Sky. If I buy a mars bar today or a new car tomorrow, part of that will go to the commercial stations.

As I pointed out above. The cost of advertising applies universally throughout all commerce. 

The point about the TV License is certainly not about what one person does, but the fairness of it as a Tax on watching any television in the UK, BBC or not.

Advertising has no relevance to the argument for rationalising the BBC TV Tax. We are discussing the UK TV License as it exists and how it might one day exist. 

BBC Radio is an anomaly and the future of BBC Radio is by no means secure. It has no formal financial basis except as being paid for by a Tax on watching television in the UK - whether from the BBC or the independent sector. Anomalies tend to disappear in time. Would the loss of BBC Radio be a national tragedy? No; but only a tragedy for those whose careers might be cut short as a result. 

As for my legally watching TV in the UK at houses with TV Licenses purchased, Do you suggest that I ask my hosts to turn it off because I personally have no TV License! The Tax is address based, not on a Tax directly on the individuals who may visit that address. However the last time I saw any TV in UK was some fifteen months ago for all that. I have been in the same room as a turned off TV many times since!

ATB from George

Would the loss of BBC Radio be a national tragedy? No

YES

Tragedy is too strong a word. It might be mildly unsettling for those who have listened to BBC Radio all their lives!

But there is nothing uniquely special about BBC Radio except the lack of adverts. 

Most of the stations are just as dire as the direst commercial stations!

ATB from George

That's just your opinion George, and one (thankfully) a considerable number of people do not share. 

Dear Tony,

Certainly true. This is a sort of talking shop where we share our opinions.

My opinion is that I would not find the loss of BBC Radio so troubling that I could be motivated to to do much work on a way of financing its future. I have a suggestion below, but it was not workable in reality.

For those who are more passionate about BBC Radio and Television carrying on in the longer term, it is  possibly worth their time to add thoughtful and workable solutions to the debate over the looming financial crisis for the BBC. 

My opinion is that this financing should not be via a tax on people watching TV but who do not patronise the BBC’s Television services. 

Strangely, given what I have just written, I would happily pay an annual fee for BBC Radio that was used for Radio Services alone. But that is not the situation at present, and when I wrote to the TV License Authority some years ago volunteering to pay a third of the TV License fee as a contribution towards the Radio service, but not allowing me to watch TV [for which I have no use at all], I was told that this was not possible. 

ATB from George

Have you spent much time in the US?

I couldn't find anything remotely equivalent to Radio's 3 or 4.

A few programmes that have help inform my love of music;

On Radio Two, Humphrey Lyttelton -  Best of Jazz (sadly no longer with us of course) & on Radio Three; This Week’s Composer & Building a Library.

I can’t say it would be a tragedy if BBC Radio ended, but it would certainly be a great shame.

If I have a complaint about the BBC it is more to do with the money they waste on so called “star” performers & consultants.

George

The licence fee is not a "tax". It is a fee that those who access broadcast TV in a particular way are obliged to pay - details here:

https://www.gov.uk/tv-licence

More and more frequently people don't pay either because they are not required to, or claim that they are not.

I agree that the BBC needs reform and, in my view, a return to its original core values. What I cannot envisage is the UK without a non-commercial broadcasting service.

You might not care but millions do.

I certainly care, even if it may not quite look like it.

There is a point where one’s patience is stretched beyond the possible, and the BBC has passed that point for me.

Of course the TV License is a Tax. The TV License Fee is administered by a Government Agency [The TV Licensing Authority] not as a charge for watching BBC TV, but as a charge for watching any TV in the UK. It is a Tax by any other name, and so is a Tax on watching TV in the UK by its existence, and administered not by the BBC but the Government . If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then effectively it is a duck. and the TV License is Government Tax on watching TV by another name. Very simple, even if the language of Government certainly is evasive of the reality. Orwell certainly predicted this kind of language abuse.

ATB from George

Of course we are all entitled to our opinions and my opinion, to be frank George, is that you have a irrational hatred of the BBC. Only last year you were wanting to shut down the broadcaster over the Jimmy Saville affair.

The BBC has to shape up or disappear. It cannot be in a privileged position of Taxing [via the Govt] all TV viewing in the UK and carry on like a rogue elephant. 

If it can shape up then the Tax, as such, can be levied on those who want broadcasting without adverts. As such it can survive and even prosper. But as it is today, without radical reform, it ought to close sooner than later. tomorrow would not be too soon if it carries on as it is ...

It has been a feather-bedded for forty years too long. It is not quite what people think. It is not the fount of the objective truth, or even particularly honest. It could be, but it is not now.

It needs to shape up.

If it is incapable of doing so, then let it take adverts for finance and compete in the normal market place. And abandon Taxing TV watching in the UK ...

ATB from George

What the fcuk would you know about it? You don't watch TV, as you never tire of telling us. Your endless, ill-informed, philistine posts are becoming rather tiresome George.

Perhaps you should take your own advice and shape up (in terms of being a bit better informed, or at least thinking just a teensy bit before posting) or ship out/shut up.

I don't want to labour the point but the licence fee is not a tax. A tax is something your are obliged to pay whether you use the services it funds or  not - you have no children? you still pay for education services, you are never ill? you still pay for the health service and so on.

You don't have a car, you don't pay road fund licence, you don't watch TV you don't pay the licence fee. It is not difficult.

Since you don't pay it, and don't seem to watch TV anyway, what are you complaining about and what personal knowledge informs your opinion?

Life is never too short to take what is left of it seriously - even VERY SERIOUSLY.

The BBC is a Government funded organisation via a unique ring fenced Tax that carries on like it is the most important organisation in the UK.

It is no such thing. It has its own agenda as all organisations do have. It has massive weaknesses, such as covering up for paedophiles, it has a left leaning political agenda, and it has a unique opportunity to Tax people who never watch the TV output of the BBC simply to watch TV in the UK.

I doubt that the demise of the BBC would inevitably follow the disbandment of the Tax on watching any TV in the UK, but at least those who chose to finance it would be volunteers if it became a subscritopn service. No doubt that millions would think that it is worth paying a BBC subscription [administered by the BBC not the Govt] to watch TV in the UK.

For cricket fans - for example - they could subscribe to Sky and never again be bothered by the need to pay for those who watch BBC TV.

In the modern age, and in a Britain that is no longer more than a second rate European [let alone World] Power, we need well drop the pretence of Empire as exemplified by the BBC in all its hypocritical aspects of pretending neutrality whist being anything but. 

ATB from George

And in Stalin’s Russia you could have me disappear!

I am disappointed by your post Kevin. I thought you a broad-minded person capable of a debate rather than than someone who merely would [given the chance you do not have] simply silence a voice contrary to your view.

Shame that had to happen, but one learns the people that are truly in Voltaire’s image. Not you anyway!

ATB from George

Why would I want to watch a Prom broadcast when I shut my eyes at a real concert in any case?

ATB from George

Now I understand; you see the BBC as a metaphor for the decline and moral and political malaise of a once great colonial power.

Not far off!