NDX 272 Debate & yes, Hugo

HH - you almost had me there. For a moment I half-thought we might be one step closer to inducting you into Hugo's barmy army. But now I see your post for what it is - a blatant ploy to make us seethe with envy at your trip to the Big Apple. Your Jedi tricks will not work on us...

Might I suggest you buy yourself a decent mic, set of headphones and the new chord Mojo and use this at the Village Vanguard - should provide an infinitely better sound than what you would hear with your bare ears 

As I believe the youth of today would say, I am "well Jell" of the New York trip, not been for a while and love the place.

I have done this numerous times with HDX vs Hugo, and DAC V1 against Hugo, and just can't hear these night and day differences.

There is a review of the Hugo TT on stereophile which says the same thing, no night and day differences, but the Hugo TT was marginally better than all the other DACs tested. 

That is also what I hear.

Graeme, yes the NDX to my ears  is not able to resolve nuance, details and sheer musical insight that the  Hugo with a good transport source (such as NDX) can - BUT - the NDX is enjoyable - and I certainly would enjoy my music from it if I had no other DAC.  I also wouldn't say the NDX is flat - on my system it throws quite a wide stereo image with an enjoyable bounce to the sound .. so if the 272 is only nearly as good as the NDX I am sure it will be a great player... I have yet to hear it critically at home.

I have found since I have improved my amplification (pre and power) I have been able to enjoy the quality of my sources for what they are. and be able to enjoy the subtleties and ability of the sources.  For example I have not ever enjoyed my CDX2 as much as I do now.. and I even like the CDX2 automation screen on my streamer Naim app  

Damn it, there's something else that's wrong with my system, I don't hear any differences.  I plugged everything in, after a bit of tweaking and positioning etc, concluded that it was fantastic, and now all I hear music.  There is no difference at all.  Is there anything else I can get wrong?  I'm such an amateur at this stuff. :-(

Agreed Simon. I should have said '....flat by comparison'...and analogemusic, I guess one man's 'marginal' is another's 'night and day'.  For me it is a significant shift in enjoyment through sheer believability in connecting right through the recording. All the subtleties unearthed by the Hugo just make the performance more real somehow.

My wife probably couldn't tell the difference mind...but then I know what I'm listening for and I am acutely aware when it is missing.

G

When I put the Hugo and DACV1 into my yamaha HT amp, then in dialogue clarity the Hugo is much better than the V1.

Still, the Naim DAC is able to extract meaning and musicality even from a single note of music played. The Hugo also does this, but the Naim just does it (extracting meaning from the music) apparently better.

Higher resolution DAC's have been around for 20+ years,  but Naim and Linn were and are about the music first.

I still like my Hugo very very much and into a Naim amplifier I feel I get the best of both worlds, but let no one underestimate how good Naim sources are.

+1 Exactly

In mathematical terms, you can say if A is better than B, and B is better than C,
so A is better than C. In hi-fi terms, it is a bit tricker, I guess
272 overall presentation seems to be closer to the Hugo , than NDX : the answer
is not that obvious , i believe.

the funny thing with this hugo : it is a non factor in France, because of a very small network of resellers.
the hype machine never started in the french audiophile community , and in the french speaking Naim community.
For us, it is still very much Naim DAC or bust ( TotalDac or other Dacs for people in the high end).

I'm looking forward the comparison between the 272 and the Hugo

I find this argument fatuous. The only person who can decide which of the two is better in their system is he who uses his lug holes. 

Hi to all, not a streamer or a Dac guy yet, but like to tune in to see what direction I will pursue!  

I'm still a old analog guy with a digital front, Cdx2.  But as my mother used to say not always, but usually there is a relationship between price and quality! 

Prices might be wrong but this is what I googled up! 

Berkeley’s track record, I’d always wondered what this company could do if it aimed higher than the $5000 price point.

The answer has arrived in the new $16,000 Alpha DAC Reference Series, 

 

Chord unveiled their new flagship DAC DAVE (£7995)/$12K in Munich to a standing room only crowd.

 

 

Ndac Reference Digital to Analog Converter $4,395 ~ Berkeleys 5K

 

www.moon-audio.com/chord-electronics-hugo-dac-headphone-amp.html

Rating: 100% - 8 votes -$2,495

 

 

NAIM DAC-V1 Asynchronous USB DAC/Digital Preamp $2,595

Once Again, it looks like the second hand market wins again, and the item of choice, Naims infamous Ndac!   @ prices under 2K in the US. 

Also, I can see why Naim has stayed out off the State of the Art High Priced Dac's!  Who wants to spend over 10K for something that sounds just as good as analog rig! 

I think, I heard, not sure that the Ndac's dac was comparable to the NDS's dac, Please correct me if I'm wrong! 

Mind you, I never hard any dac besides the one in my 282, Cdx2, etc....

Out ! 

I find myself listening and really enjoying the musicality of the Naim DAC-V1 more than the wonderful Chord Hugo. We listen to music and appreciate art in different ways- vive la différence!

edit - source is PC

You could apply that answer to 90% of the discussions on this (or I suspect any) audio forum...it needs a #number!

G

Very true Graeme. 

Enjoy your trips to China. 

Steve

Cheers - G

there are so many great dac's out there. For example i'm currently loving my ps audio directstream dac. Have the hugo lovers tried any other dac's other than naim and hugo? Why only limit yourselves to only naim and hugo? if ndx dac is less good than the ndac, its bar is not very high to begin with. Try some of the other well regarded dacs, like the auralic vega, mcintosh d150 or ear yoshino dac4. And come back and tell us hugo is better than all these other dac's.

also don't tell us you prefer hugo because of its price performance ratio. I get as much musical enjoyment from my nad headphones and ifi idsd nano as my main rig. we are talking absolute performance here.

I have a few digital components Sony, Audio Research, Naim, Chord and some PC soundcards. I enjoy them all and I guess that is why I keep them. Of course they have different strengths and weaknesses but I enjoy the music when they play and try to compare them as to which gives the most enjoyment sometimes seems quite odd!

My point is, there is a big world out there.

I love reading these hugo debates, well, the shorter ones anyway.  Shortly after I joined the Naim forum, I developed the desire to demo a Hugo, as everyone seemed to think it was amazing.  But, as more people shared their experiences, in huge-o detail, the same forum gradually put me off it.  

When I purchased a DAC-V1 and set it in my Cyrus system, I was both blown away, and yet, unsatisfied.  The detail was amazing, the musical cohesion was something I'd not really heard before, and imaging stability was vastly improved.  But it just didn't have the musical impact the Cyrus CD8X had in that setup, the Naim revealed much more of what was happening in the music, but not in a way I really enjoyed.  Matching the V1 to a Supernait2 has truly cured the lack of musical impact, and not at the cost of detail or insight.  

Naim is said by some to lack finesse, which I interpret as that airy tip-toe kind of sound.  And it's this that the Hugo seems to introduce, and what I bought an SN2 to get rid off.  

This is what I love about Naim Forums, sooner or later, some one steps up to the plate that has actually listened to other gear besides Naim!  The only experience I have is with Naim & Linn, I would imagine different kind of sound from Mac, and Tube types.

also don't tell us you prefer hugo because of its price performance ratio. I get as much musical enjoyment from my nad headphones and ifi idsd nano as my main rig. we are talking absolute performance here.

Mother has left me now, but Zeny, do you usually find that the more expensive dac's outperform the lesser expensive dac's?

And if so, to what  degree?

Berkeley's 16K 

Dave Chord 12K 

PS Audio ?

Ndac 4K

Hugo 2.4 K 

Naims Dac V1 2.5K

Out!! 

whenever i see pictures of iPads' as sources and anything other than cheap as chips usb cables i wonder what noise the Apple CCK introduces to the system and wonder whether it really makes sense to stick an expensive cable on the end. Wouldn't it make more sense for a cable manufacturer to make an all-in-one iPad to DAC cable, even if they have to play nicely with Apple licensing?

BTW am guilty of cable switching with CCK into various DACs

No, once you get past a certain price level, say around $3,000 usd, it is very much a matter of personal taste and system synergy. lots of goodies out there if only one cares to look.