Yes 'Fragile' - New Steven Wilson Remaster
Posted by: J.N. on 04 November 2015
My CD/DVD-A copy arrived today (thanks Burning Shedsters). Another corking remix/remaster from our Steven showing how it should be done. Dynamic swing and analogue-like smoothness retained, with more detail extracted. That glorious Chris Squire bass still prances, growls and bites. It's just been fattened up a tad. Perfect. Such a shame that Mr Squire is no longer with us. I hope he got to hear the new mix.
Got your copy yet Doug?
John.
I do hope Burning Shed get round to offering all SW's remix/remasters as hi-res downloads someday soon!
Hi-res file included on the BluRay, duly ripped. I've not gotten round to listening to the HD 5.1 surround version yet but if Mr Wilson's other efforts are anything to go by it should be a real treat.
What's the pros and cons of the 2 versions please?
What two versions Howard? Surround vs. stereo or 16/44 vs. 24/96?
Incidentally, for those who might want to rip the BluRay, tracks are as follows :- 1. Instrumental Mix (no vocals) 24/96. 2. Additional Tracks 24/96. 3. Original 5.1 Mix and stereo from original Rhino DVD-A 24/96. 4. Stephen Wilson new mix 24/96 (and new surround mixes in PLCM & DTS-HD MA). 5. Needle drop 24/96. 6. "BluRay Exclusive" three tracks 24/96. 7. Original stereo 24/192.
Has anyone compared this with the original Rhino 24/96 & 24/192 DVD-A remaster release?
I've just listened to the Steven Wilson 5.1 LPCM mix. The album really lends itself to surround, and in this instance Mr Wilson has really excelled himself, it's terrific, very immersive, clear and detailed. Heart of the Sunrise is quite exceptional; you can hear the buzz and slap of Chris Squire's bass clearly, Steve Howe's guitar weaves around, a most excellent effect.
I did have a brief listen to the Rhino 5.1 mix, but it didn't grab me. The surround lost some of its width and details were muted. I'm not a great comparer of things, nether am I bothered with all the alternative versions. I'll just stick to the new stereo & surround mixes, they're excellent.
Thanks for the review Tony. Burning Shed have emailed me to say they've posted my CD/DVDAs of "Fragile" and King Crimson's "THRAK" today. Really looking forward to these.
I had tremendous difficulty trying to extract the 24-bit audio files from the DVDs of CTTE and Relayer. I was using the trial version of DVD Audio Extractor and trying to extract the 24-bit versions of the original mixes. The tracks didn't seem to be identified very well on the DVD, so it was difficult to know which files I was working on, but most difficult was transferring the files to the NS01. I never seemed to be able to get all the files to move, despite doing exactly the same thing each time. I must have tried every combination of tags too. I sent a query into the support team, but it must have been at a time when there were other bigger problems as never received a reply. In the end I simply ripped the SW remixed 16-bit/44kHz files from the CD, but ultimately I think I prefer the Rhino remasters anyway as they're closer to the original vinyl releases. Somehow I don't think I'll be bothering with the SW remaster of Fragile.
Has anybody got the original red/plum Atlantic vinyl release? If you have like me why would you want any other copy?
I had tremendous difficulty trying to extract the 24-bit audio files from the DVDs of CTTE and Relayer. I was using the trial version of DVD Audio Extractor and trying to extract the 24-bit versions of the original mixes. The tracks didn't seem to be identified very well on the DVD, so it was difficult to know which files I was working on, but most difficult was transferring the files to the NS01. I never seemed to be able to get all the files to move, despite doing exactly the same thing each time. I must have tried every combination of tags too. I sent a query into the support team, but it must have been at a time when there were other bigger problems as never received a reply. In the end I simply ripped the SW remixed 16-bit/44kHz files from the CD, but ultimately I think I prefer the Rhino remasters anyway as they're closer to the original vinyl releases. Somehow I don't think I'll be bothering with the SW remaster of Fragile.
Hi Clive,
Are you referring to the DVD or Blu Ray versions? I've always struggled to rip blu-rays so tend to buy the DVDs. However, I too had problems with C2TE DVD and in the end I put it on a memory stick plugged into the back of the Unitiserve. The Userve refused to see all the tracks when I put it on the NAS drive.
Keith
Has anybody got the original red/plum Atlantic vinyl release? If you have like me why would you want any other copy?
My Naim box won't play worn out vinyl, just spits it back out the ethernet socket..
Has anybody got the original red/plum Atlantic vinyl release? If you have like me why would you want any other copy?
Lucky you.
Has anybody got the original red/plum Atlantic vinyl release? If you have like me why would you want any other copy?
I have red/plums of Yes, The Yes Album & Fragile. Are they supposed to be better? If so, why?
Has anybody got the original red/plum Atlantic vinyl release? If you have like me why would you want any other copy?
Yep, it's good. The new mixes are better to my ears.
Glad to hear Wilson has delivered again. I'll be ordering my copy for after I get back to England. Oceans next? Hope so.
I had tremendous difficulty trying to extract the 24-bit audio files from the DVDs of CTTE and Relayer. I was using the trial version of DVD Audio Extractor and trying to extract the 24-bit versions of the original mixes. The tracks didn't seem to be identified very well on the DVD, so it was difficult to know which files I was working on, but most difficult was transferring the files to the NS01. I never seemed to be able to get all the files to move, despite doing exactly the same thing each time. I must have tried every combination of tags too. I sent a query into the support team, but it must have been at a time when there were other bigger problems as never received a reply. In the end I simply ripped the SW remixed 16-bit/44kHz files from the CD, but ultimately I think I prefer the Rhino remasters anyway as they're closer to the original vinyl releases. Somehow I don't think I'll be bothering with the SW remaster of Fragile.
Hi Clive,
Are you referring to the DVD or Blu Ray versions? I've always struggled to rip blu-rays so tend to buy the DVDs. However, I too had problems with C2TE DVD and in the end I put it on a memory stick plugged into the back of the Unitiserve. The Userve refused to see all the tracks when I put it on the NAS drive.
Keith
Hello Keith,
I was actually referring to the DVD, rather than the Blu-Ray. My PC doesn't have a Blu-Ray drive, so I wouldn't be able to rip that and, besides, I assume the 24-bit files are the same, whether on DVD or Blu-Ray. It was the 24-bit files of the original mixes I was trying to retrieve, but it was impossible to identify which was which. Then I couldn't get them all to rip consistently, nor to move across to the NS01 consistently.
After giving up with those efforts, I concluded that I preferred the Rhino masters anyway, although actually in the case of Close to the Edge, my first vinyl copy thrashes any of the CD versions.
Has anybody got the original red/plum Atlantic vinyl release? If you have like me why would you want any other copy?
Yep, it's good. The new mixes are better to my ears.
I look forward to hearing it Tony.
For Fragile I'd go with the MFSL CD for best recording. I'm sure Wilson's effort will top that, as it did for The Yes Album - for the flat transfers as opposed to the remix.
I remember being in a hell of a pickle trying to work out what was what from the BD of CTTE but with judicious note taking, noting sample rates (which can be indicative in some cases) and cross checking with sites like Computer Audiophile I got it all correct in the end. DVD Audio Extractor will also read the disk and use meta data to tell you what you are looking at in most cases, but not this one IIRC.
I'm not in a huge hurry to end our holiday but this (and Rush R40 Live) is going to make November seem a bit warmer.
Has anybody got the original red/plum Atlantic vinyl release? If you have like me why would you want any other copy?
Chris Squires' bass was arguably too loud in the original mix due to some Yes albums being allegedly mixed on headphones straight off the desk.
This from an interview with Chris Squire in 2013.
I think it was just developing. Our second album Time and a Word was where we first started to work with Eddy Offord [who came on board as an engineer on that album] and he and I just had a really good relationship with how he liked the way my tone was coming out of my Marshall 100-watt that I’d used ever since the beginning really and the thing that he added to that by [using] certain compression and certain settings that he liked in the studio, so we just developed it really, from Time and a Word onwards and I suppose you could say that by the time we got to Fragile and “Roundabout,” he’d really finessed the production of my bass sound.
And of course in the music, it’s really how the bass became quite featured volume-wise, because when a producer named Tony Colton mixed Time and a Word and decided to wear a pair of headphones. The headphone output from the desk that he was listening to was very bass-light, so he was jamming these headphones on his head and he kept waving to Eddy, “I need more bass! I need more bass!” and so Eddy just kept turning the bass up for him and at some point, he said, “Yeah, that’s great.” But in actual fact, the bass was over-loud in the room, but he didn’t really realize that, because he was mixing with the headphones on. So that’s sort of in an odd way, why I was mixed so loudly on all of those albums. When the album came out, Time and a Word, it got such good reviews from the audio magazines that I guess Eddie figured we’d carry on mixing the bass loud and the rest is history!
It sounds like Steven Wilson has taken down the level of the bass and fattened it up a bit on his remix/remasters of 'The Yes Album' and 'Fragile'. The bass is now in better balance, to these ears at least.
John.
I was actually referring to the DVD, rather than the Blu-Ray. My PC doesn't have a Blu-Ray drive, so I wouldn't be able to rip that and, besides, I assume the 24-bit files are the same, whether on DVD or Blu-Ray. It was the 24-bit files of the original mixes I was trying to retrieve, but it was impossible to identify which was which. Then I couldn't get them all to rip consistently, nor to move across to the NS01 consistently.
After giving up with those efforts, I concluded that I preferred the Rhino masters anyway, although actually in the case of Close to the Edge, my first vinyl copy thrashes any of the CD versions.
Hi Clive,
The 24bit files of the original album mix are contained in Title 5 of the VIDEO_TS section of the CTTE DVDA disc. As a rule original mixes are usually LPCM only (no MLP) and also stereo only [they also usually have a marginally longer running time]. If you load your DVD disc into the DVD drive but toggle to "Open DVD files from file folder" in the DVD source dialog you will be able to choose between the separate AUDIO_TS and VIDEO_TS folders held on the disc. The only other candidate would have been Title 4 in the VIDEO_TS folder but as this title also has the DTS surround audio it must be the the new mix rather than original mix.
I hear this one really took it out of Steven Wilson.
I ordered this while on my travels and it got here today. Fifty seven slices of prog porn to drool over - lovely.
I don't think the remix works this time round. Lovely clarity but the suppressed bass robs the album of it's edge and atmosphere. I don't mind the Rhino versions so that's some compensation for the unappealing (to me) Wilson mix. They sound pretty good too, if a bit rough. But what sounds best to me are the transfers from the original masters. I'll have to go through it all again a couple of times to see what settles - poor me!
The tagging was easy. DVD Audio Extractor showed me what was in each Chapter (if it wasn't obvious already). A nice collection to have but the remix won't be my go to version.
The BD disc was scratched. Looks like it was damaged when it was inserted into the cardboard sleeve - why do they do this? It's stupid. So a replacement will cross over with the scratched one and I'll put it unopened on a shelf. for posterity.
I'm afraid, Philistine that I am, that I prefer the Steven Wilson 5.1 LPCM mix. One of the big (for me) disadvantages of BluRay & DVD-A discs over SACD is the former usually requires you to have the TV on to navigate the audio options but I've realised I can switch between the various versions using the colour buttons on the remote.
The beauty of this music obsession thing is that you like what you like and you can please yourself. So all's good.
MFSL CD Nice Sound
SA CD Box Set - Sounds Bright
Steven Wilson 2015 - Sounds Best
