S U P E R L U M I N A - Is this the biggest improvement ever?

Posted by: Martin.L on 08 November 2015

I naively used to assume that the NAC A5 are perfect...

Just got the speaker cables and could not believe that cables could make this difference.

Clearly these cables need a good warm up and run-in before they are going to approach their optimum sound and I have been told that it takes one week for them to really start to disappear behind the music. Yet from the off with only day’s warm up this upgrade delivered a more musical result than the majority of others.

The system now creates an effect of a non-electronic device, the end result gives the overall feel of a much more realistic space. The wider and deeper soundstage has very consistent perspectives.

These luminas changed the system, it became a variety of moods expressed in tones that are almost endless, they depend actually upon the great working together of all the tonal attributes– color, quality, pitch, and loudness.

The heavy tones assert their will with a more insistent energy; the long tones upon which we linger make a deeper and more lasting impression; while the light and short tones in contrast become points of mere passing and transition.

The contrasts between piano and forte – loudness that brings the tones so near that they may seem threatening in their insistence; softness that makes them seem far away and dreamlike.

The treble is delicate - sweet and clear. Voices are strongly holographic, female singers do not screech and are outstandingly articulate.

The energy it managed to extract from the albums was nothing short of astounding.

It also preserved the ability to put the music before the sound...

It makes you want to keep on listening! can't get to sleep.

What a great project.

Good job naim,

Martin

Posted on: 16 November 2015 by MDS

Richard

Given the highly revealing nature of your top-end system I strongly suspect that when the demo is over and you re-insert the NACA, you're going to suffer a dose of cold turkey which may cause you to reappraise the cost.

Mike

Posted on: 16 November 2015 by ken c

Originally Posted by Steve J:

A sensible approach Richard. 9m of cable is just overkill expense-wise and I'm sure I'd make the same decision in your shoes. Short of rearranging your system to accommodate shorter lengths of speaker cable you're stumped. However you will gain improvement spending the money on your DR upgrade and service for the 500.

We must get together again soon.

ATB

Steve

i actually believe i am in more or less the same boat though i havent listened to the SL spreaker cable yet.

i need 4 runs x 7m which comes to a cool £8400. The 2x500 service and DR upgrade comes to more or less the same amount.

fortunately my system sounds very good as it is ... so i can afford to put this on hold for a while unless temptation take the better of me... been known to happen...

enjoy

ken

Posted on: 16 November 2015 by Chris Dolan

In anticipation (but somewhat prematurely) I have re-arranged by system to work with shorter speaker cable runs - I now have the excess NACA5 all crackerjack shaped and it sounds great

Posted on: 17 November 2015 by tonym

Originally Posted by MDS:

Richard

Mike

Thing is, if your system sounds great to start with, it will still sound just as great when you revert, once you've forgotten the sound the improvement makes, which in my experience doesn't take long at all. I'm sure SL speaker cable will make my hi-fi sound better, but at over £16K for my system I'm not going to go there.

Posted on: 17 November 2015 by hungryhalibut

When you put it like that, it gives a different perspective: active users in particular need rather deep pockets. I'd only need a single 3m pair, so being passive can sometimes be a bonus!

Posted on: 17 November 2015 by Innocent Bystander

Originally Posted by tonym:

Originally Posted by MDS:

Richard

Mike

Something else to consider for the OP is to save the money for now, and plan for an active conversion of the S800s, whence the speaker cable question becomes somewhat different...

Posted on: 17 November 2015 by Dan43

SL was enough of an upgrade to make it close to financially better to go SL IC and SC than a second 555DR on an NDS when I was in that world. SL speaker at 3m plus IC would have still been just cheaper than a new 555DR, and close to perhaps better value and a better upgrade than a used 555DR, plus demo cables were around at a discount at the time.

Waiting for 272/250DR to arrive and will be demo SL IC and also SC, although XPS DR is being flagged up as a great upgrade, but I want a 2 box solution and tempted with SL.

Have NACA5 and Hi-Line (and Powerline) though so interesting to see if SL ups the 272/250DR set up.

Posted on: 17 November 2015 by tonym

Originally Posted by Hungryhalibut:

When you put it like that, it gives a different perspective: active users in particular need rather deep pockets. I'd only need a single 3m pair, so being passive can sometimes be a bonus!

Maybe. But it'll never sound as good as an active one! (run awayyyy..)

Posted on: 17 November 2015 by ChrisH

Originally Posted by Dan43:

Have NACA5 and Hi-Line (and Powerline) though so interesting to see if SL ups the 272/250DR set up.

It did considerably up the level of my NDX/SN2 though I had only NACA5 & Powerlines, not the Hi-Line.

I didnt want to go to 3 boxes either at the moment and SL did the business for me instead.

Keep us posted Dan43, will be interesting to get your findings when you do the trial.

Posted on: 17 November 2015 by ken c

Originally Posted by tonym:

Originally Posted by Hungryhalibut:

When you put it like that, it gives a different perspective: active users in particular need rather deep pockets. I'd only need a single 3m pair, so being passive can sometimes be a bonus!

Maybe. But it'll never sound as good as an active one! (run awayyyy..)

enjoy

ken

Posted on: 17 November 2015 by Steve J

Originally Posted by Hungryhalibut:

When you put it like that, it gives a different perspective: active users in particular need rather deep pockets. I'd only need a single 3m pair, so being passive can sometimes be a bonus!

I'm with you there HH. Like you I only need 3m lengths in my passive system. IOWs just pennies.

I've had an active system with 52/2x250. I just don't feel the exorbitant extra cost of a top end active system justifies the small improvement over what I have.

Posted on: 17 November 2015 by ken c

Originally Posted by Steve J:

Originally Posted by Hungryhalibut:

When you put it like that, it gives a different perspective: active users in particular need rather deep pockets. I'd only need a single 3m pair, so being passive can sometimes be a bonus!

I'm with you there HH. Like you I only need 3m lengths in my passive system. IOWs just pennies.

I've had an active system with 52/2x250. I just don't feel the exorbitant extra cost of a top end active system justifies the small improvement over what I have.

the significance of "small" improvements is highly maginified in an active system.

enjoy

ken

Posted on: 17 November 2015 by Darke Bear

I found the SL speaker cables to be a very significant and transformative improvement over the NAC A5 that in high-end systems it is a key upgrade - when one can bring oneself to do it.

It is different from all the DR upgrades and IMO offers musical improvements to the life, clarity, power and presentation that do not get through to the speakers with NAC A5.

From my home audition this was just a fact that I had to deal with. I'm not a fan of self-delusion with things in general and specifically HiFi.

But it is expensive - tell me about it, as I purchased three 7m runs Active.

But to suggest NAC A5 remaining there does not really impair performance is untrue. NAC A5 is a great value for money cable which allows one to assemble a good system, but once you reach 552-500 Passive level it is a key upgrade IMO.

And if you have an Active system, then you are deceiving yourself if you think you are hearing what you have already paid for in equipment but retaining doggedly the NAC A5 - it simply is not good enough - it is dull and bland compared to SL speaker leads.

...but that is just my opinion!

I respect people wanting to believe otherwise, but just disagree with the facts as demonstrated to me.

DB.

Posted on: 17 November 2015 by Allante93

Ok let's see what Naim has to say about it's SL interconnects: "Designed to maximise the performance of Statement but equally at home in 500 Series and Classic Series systems, Super Lumina pre to power amp interconnects are available with DIN to XLR, and ..." 1st Separates, not integrated systems. Ok my nap 100 and nait are out of the conversation. S1/500/300/250/200, that's it. S1/552/252/282/, that's it. 272, that's it. One would think, bare minimum,552 and 300 territory, but who knows. Give it a shot.

Posted on: 17 November 2015 by Darke Bear

It is not a sharp threshold but more that once you are at 552-500 it is a no-brainer upgrade.

Probably also at 552-300DR will be obvious too.

Lower down the hierarchy you will have other things to contend with that may be worth spending money on first.

NAC A5 is very good for what it can do at the price, it is just progressively more of a bottleneck when you have upgraded everywhere else in the signal chain. Once you are at 552-500 (or 300DR) level then ignoring the NAC A5 is a personal choice, but IMO not a good one, based on what I heard when I compared it to the NAC A5 in my system.

Not many times I find I'm open mouthed in awe at the change - but I was - that was with my then 552-3x500 Active system. The freedom in the bass, lack of congestion, lower noise and clarity in higher frequencies was a shock. But people may hear it differently - perhaps.

DB.

Posted on: 17 November 2015 by tonym

Well I dunno - I've been listening to my system today and it doesn't sound dull and bland. At all. Perhaps I'm not discerning enough...

Posted on: 17 November 2015 by ken c

shut up DB!! i'm in danger of splashing out on SL speaker cables now because of your glowingly positive reports.

or should i throw caution to the wind and go for NAC S1 first??(source first and all that...)

given how good my system sounds right now, i cannot even begin to imagine what its like with your stratospheric system!!!

enjoy...

ken

Posted on: 17 November 2015 by Darke Bear

It is all comparative.

A 252 Pre is not dull and bland, but compare it to a 552 and it is.

No point in having a hierarchy of possible upgrades if the discussion of their relative effects has to conform to what we want to be true, rather than what actually is the case.

Compare NAC A5 against SL speaker cable and it is dull, bland, noisy, smeary and rather harsh.

This thread was to discuss Super Lumina.

One could say that NAC A5 vs SL speaker cable is no difference, but that is not true.

One could say you don't want it to be better - that can be true, but saying something different.

DB.

Posted on: 17 November 2015 by ken c

Originally Posted by tonym:

Well I dunno - I've been listening to my system today and it doesn't sound dull and bland. At all. Perhaps I'm not discerning enough...

yes it did Tony you just didn't notice it thats all...

enjoy

ken

Posted on: 17 November 2015 by Darke Bear

Originally Posted by ken c:

shut up DB!! i'm in danger of splashing out on SL speaker cables now because of your glowingly positive reports.

Ok - I've said enough and will allow all the soothing 'NAC A5 is perfectly fine' posters to hypnotically calm themselves.

Just saying it as I heard and hear it.

DB.

Posted on: 17 November 2015 by Allante93

Probably the 300, it's Naim top tier classic amp. And it goes without saying a DRed front and rear end Followed by SL speaker cable. Naim done a fine job on their website with this one, "And equally at home with the 500 and Classic Series Systems."

Posted on: 17 November 2015 by nigelb

Right I've got my tin hat on so here goes.

I home demoed SL speaker cable (3m lenghts) against my then current NACA5 using my then NDX (now NDS), 282/SupercapDR, 250DR and....well....err....I have SL speaker cables as a permanent fixture. I would argue therefore the benefits from using SL speaker cables can be heard in the middle echelons of the Classic range. Switching back and forth between SL and NACA5 during my home demo only confirmed the superiority of the SL in my mid-Classic system. I also suspect that the new Classic DR power amps exploit the transparent qualities of the SL speaker cable (or the other way round or both) but this is only supposition as I have not done this direct comparison of DR vs non-DR power amps on the SL speaker cable.

Having said this I fully expect that the benefit in SQ from the SL speaker cables will become more evident as you go up the Classic range and into 500 territory.

Right, am now retiring to my bunker to avoid all the flack from the NACA5 apostles (of which I was one until I heard the SL speaker cable).

Posted on: 17 November 2015 by Darke Bear

Originally Posted by nigelb:

... am now retiring to my bunker to avoid all the flack from the NACA5 apostles (of which I was one until I heard the SL speaker cable).

I will fly air-support for you!

Obviously not a surprise to me what you found. Bunkers can be fun.

DB.

Posted on: 17 November 2015 by The Strat (Fender)

Once again the argument gets polarised. The launch of the SL does not invalidate Naca or any other wire for that matter - it just gives another option to fine tune a system.

Posted on: 17 November 2015 by Darke Bear

Originally Posted by The Strat (Fender):

Once again the argument gets polarised. The launch of the SL does not invalidate Naca or any other wire for that matter - it just gives another option to fine tune a system.

In the same way a 552 fine-tunes a system that previously had a 252.

It is not a matter of polarisation, but saying what you hear the difference to be.

The SL speaker cable is so obviously silly-better than NAC A5 that it should not be about polarised opinions - other than opinions that the earth is flat or not could be said to be two polarised opinion.

NAC A5 is a good value for money cable that serves well. SL speaker cable cost a lot more and takes the system performance to another level.

The discussion is really 'should I purchase it or not' which is personal and I personally respect not spending money I don't have.

I'm not going to purchase Statement Monoblock power Amps, but if I posted that they were really not much different to a NAP500 and that anyone saying otherwise is polarising the discussion then that is rather odd.

DB.