S U P E R L U M I N A - Is this the biggest improvement ever?

Hi DB,

Fascinating, your comparison of the SL speaker cable with the 500 DR upgrade and as you have commented before.

In a way the speaker cable upgrade is simpler than a 500DR upgrade as it is easier to reverse but my 500 is due for a service so I have, perhaps incorrectly or as a leap of faith, higher expectations.

I think ideally I would like to upgrade my speaker cables now and if only I needed a 3m or 5m run I am sure I would have done so. I have considered moving my kit between my speakers but it is not going to work for me both cosmetically and in terms of re-routing my dedicated mains supply etc.

As regards the 4-5 pin DIN SL for my NAC to Supercap/Superline I am really really eager to hear it... so come on Naim please progress this configuration I can't be the only one interested in such?

Richard

Needing a Service is a good reason to bump the DR upgrade ahead of the SL speaker cables. The DR upgrade improves dynamics, lowers harmonic distortion and make the 500 more nimble with the music - you will like it. You may find, as my Dealer did, that it takes a couple of weeks to settle-down and behave musically, but that is what I found with my non-DR 500 set new - they took about three weeks to begin to sound special and really a few months to be obviously silly-superior to the set of 300 Amps I used before, as good as those were.

I really found the SL speaker cables clear the decks of so much murk and smear and opened-out the low-end performance that they had to join the system. There is a sense of open-clarity and 'rightness' with these I like a lot. I know some have said they just fine-tune the system, but that is not what I found - they fundamentally impacted on my performance envelope and I feel I hear more of my system that I paid for - yes they are expensive, but for all that, no regrets here! 

DB.

I found SL IC and SC a better value improvement overall on NDS/SN2/HCDR than second 555DR option.

Now want to try on 272/250DR.

i could of course be wrong here DB, but i feel that all the SL and DR upgrades are almost 'mandatory' with a NAC S1 control unit?  At that level of performance, it really doesnt make sense to me to skimp on any perceived bottlenecks in the system.

in systems with  more 'humble' (?) 552/500, then i would opine that it is perhaps not so obvious/mandatory, if one were considering either order of upgrade, or the choice of either DR or SL and not both.

Interesting (and expensive!) times ahead... :-)

enjoy...

ken

I tried the SL speaker cable in my very 'humble' NDS/282/SupercapDR/250DR system. On switching a few times between NACA5 and SL speaker cable, the superiority of the SL became clear even in my mid-classic system.

The difference I observed was mainly when I put the NACA5 back in the chain. A return to a smearing or thickening I would describe it as. Of course you don't notice this thickening when listening continuously to the NACA5. I don't want to exaggerate the differences in the two pairs of cables because that would be doing the NACA5 an injustice. But a beneficial difference there was, and insignificant it wasn't. And the improvement can only be recognised by switching between the two. I have no evidence for this, but I also believe that there is a real synergy between SL and DR technology. Let's face it, the SL cables were developed for the Statement amps who's technology (in particular the new transistors) has trickled down to the DR power amps. Just saying.

Speaker cables are the only component who's VFM varies according to their length - especially the SL at £600  per m. pair. I only needed a 3m. pair so it was less of a problem for me to justify the upgrade from NACA5. I fully accept that those with very large listening rooms (or active amplification) may have a trickier time in explaining how such an 'investment' in mere bits of wire is worthwhile!

I'm very tempted to give the SL speaker cables a try. They appear flexible and have a discreet look being able to use 3M cables vs the 4+M recommendation of the NACA5. They can be ordered with factory terminated spades which are nice with my Sebrina's. Not to mention the sound, which I have to think the SL would really enjoy 272 & 250DR as stable mates.

nigelb posted:

....I have no evidence for this, but I also believe that there is a real synergy between SL and DR technology. Let's face it, the SL cables were developed for the Statement amps who's technology (in particular the new transistors) has trickled down to the DR power amps.

interesting point. you may have something there -- which makes me think perhaps i shouldnt do DR upgrade on my 500s unless i also plan to go full loom SL. Hmmm.... this could be the escape route i was looking for - and my bank manager is smiling approvingly... :-)

enjoy

ken

I picked up a loan pair of 3m cables earlier today. It's fascinating what a difference they make; the definition is so much better, instruments have appeared that didn't seem to be there before, vocals are much more lifelike and the whole sound is simply engrossing. I'd read that they were good, but I had no idea they'd be this good, or that the impact would be so clearly heard with my rather modest setup. By taking the metal block off the speaker end I've managed to get them through the trunking, which is what I suspected would be the biggest challenge. Let's see what happens over the next few days. 

Any possibility that a Superlumina" Superline is in the works ?  To complete the missing link to the loom.

Or is Naim confident that the Powerline sufficient to power the Statement !

Hungryhalibut posted:

I picked up a loan pair of 3m cables earlier today. It's fascinating what a difference they make; the definition is so much better, instruments have appeared that didn't seem to be there before, vocals are much more lifelike and the whole sound is simply engrossing. I'd read that they were good, but I had no idea they'd be this good, or that the impact would be so clearly heard with my rather modest setup. By taking the metal block off the speaker end I've managed to get them through the trunking, which is what I suspected would be the biggest challenge. Let's see what happens over the next few days. 

Nigel, it sounds like that pair of SL cabls will be a 'stayer'? You sound much more enthused about this than i recall about 'other' cables...

Great to see you back in the fold away from the cable 'wilderness' (kidding of course in case folks start throwig things at me )

i'm still slumming it with NACA5. i will need 4x7m of the buggers and that is 8.4K smackeroonies!!! I'll keep eating bread and water for  a while longer -- in fact maybe cut out the bread entirely... 

Let us know how you get on Nigel...

enjoy

ken

TOBYJUG posted:

Any possibility that a Superlumina" Superline is in the works ?  To complete the missing link to the loom.

Or is Naim confident that the Powerline sufficient to power the Statement !

did you mean SL powerline?

enjoy...

ken

ken c posted:

TOBYJUG posted:

Any possibility that a Superlumina" Superline is in the works ?  To complete the missing link to the loom.

Or is Naim confident that the Powerline sufficient to power the Statement !

did you mean SL powerline?

enjoy...

ken

Am guessing Tobyjug is asking about a 4-5pin DIN cable to connect a SuperLine to a power supply.

er no. Was saying as Ken replied..a Superlumina version of a power cable . How would that work out with Naim nomenclature ? Super Superline ..SL Powerline.. LuminaLine.. ?

......would be interesting to SL turbo horse charge everything  from the mains - without the big horse boxes.

having said that, i would be interested in a 4-5DIN SL IC for analogue surce (via superline)...

enjoy

ken

I was super skeptical about the impact the SL speaker cables were going to make, my dealer insisted I try them out, gave me a pair of 3m cables to try out for a week, the minute I replaced the NACA5 I noticed a sense of body in the music that I didn't feel before, after a week, I put the NACA5 back in and felt the difference big time..... I called my supplier, paid for the SL and kept them in my system... Now thinking of a HiLine between my DAC and Pre as well as Power-Line for the rest.

ken c posted:

nigelb posted:

....I have no evidence for this, but I also believe that there is a real synergy between SL and DR technology. Let's face it, the SL cables were developed for the Statement amps who's technology (in particular the new transistors) has trickled down to the DR power amps.

interesting point. you may have something there -- which makes me think perhaps i shouldnt do DR upgrade on my 500s unless i also plan to go full loom SL. Hmmm.... this could be the escape route i was looking for - and my bank manager is smiling approvingly... :-)

enjoy

ken

Ken,

The SL speaker cables and digital IC work very well in my system with a not as yet DR'd 500. No excuses now. 

I agree about the 4-5 pin SL IC for the Superline, which Toby Jug was alluding to. It's ironic, or moronic, that those of us that use the Naim Superline can't benefit whilst those who use the Urika can.  I may go over to the Urika to reduce the box count. It was close between the two when I had a demo, but if Naim produce an SL IC for me to try I might stick with what I have.

Steve

...but if Naim produce an SL IC for me to try I might stick with what I have.

I can imagine Naim are making one right away to prevent such a brand defection!

I was not aware, since I don't use Vinyl these days, that a suitable SL lead for the Superline did not exist - shocking!!!!

I would imagine it would bake a huge improvement.

DB.

ken c posted:

nigelb posted:

....I have no evidence for this, but I also believe that there is a real synergy between SL and DR technology. Let's face it, the SL cables were developed for the Statement amps who's technology (in particular the new transistors) has trickled down to the DR power amps.

interesting point. you may have something there -- which makes me think perhaps i shouldnt do DR upgrade on my 500s unless i also plan to go full loom SL. Hmmm.... this could be the escape route i was looking for - and my bank manager is smiling approvingly... :-)

enjoy

ken

Ken, I don't have a full loom, just SL speaker cables (with a Sarum Tuned Aray IC) which the 250 DR laps up. Steve has seen the benefit of the SL speaker cable without DR'ing his 500.

I see the SL speaker cable as a means of getting the very best out of the DR power amps (and of course the rest of the chain). So the optimum for me is SL and DR together in perfect harmony (I feel a song coming on!).

That'll wipe the smile off your bank manager's face! 

By the way, I am much better at spending other people's money than my own!

Well, my ex-dem cables are now sounding even better than they were when first plugged in, which is perhaps not surprising - from the dealer's very chilly store room to my living room. It's very hard to describe what's better; I don't really like resorting to the expressions more real and more musical, but that sums it up really. They really are transformational.

Luckily for me, I can get away with only a 3m pair, and with the ex-dem discount the cost is affordable. Even so they cost me nearly 75% of what I paid for the speakers, which for someone starting out with Naim in 1983 seems really weird. £300 a metre for wire! Bonkers. Until you hear what that gets you of course, when it seems rather good value, in a funny sort of way. In any event, what I've heard this afternoon is enough to have made me pay for them - these aren't going anywhere. 

nigelb posted:

ken c posted:

nigelb posted:

....I have no evidence for this, but I also believe that there is a real synergy between SL and DR technology. Let's face it, the SL cables were developed for the Statement amps who's technology (in particular the new transistors) has trickled down to the DR power amps.

interesting point. you may have something there -- which makes me think perhaps i shouldnt do DR upgrade on my 500s unless i also plan to go full loom SL. Hmmm.... this could be the escape route i was looking for - and my bank manager is smiling approvingly... :-)

enjoy

ken

Ken, I don't have a full loom, just SL speaker cables (with a Sarum Tuned Aray IC) which the 250 DR laps up. Steve has seen the benefit of the SL speaker cable without DR'ing his 500.

I see the SL speaker cable as a means of getting the very best out of the DR power amps (and of course the rest of the chain). So the optimum for me is SL and DR together in perfect harmony (I feel a song coming on!).

That'll wipe the smile off your bank manager's face! 

By the way, I am much better at spending other people's money than my own!

Well you guys just about summed it up, now remember this SL technology is not for Everyone just the select few who have made up their minds that No more upgrading, be it S1 Pre, 552 Pre, or even Classic Series.  But I tend to agree with Nigel that this technology was designed to get the most out of the Statement line, even if one can afford the Statement Mono Blocks! 

Darke Bear posted:

...but if Naim produce an SL IC for me to try I might stick with what I have.

I can imagine Naim are making one right away to prevent such a brand defection!

I was not aware, since I don't use Vinyl these days, that a suitable SL lead for the Superline did not exist - shocking!!!!

I would imagine it would bake a huge improvement.

DB.

It maybe the case DB but with the Superline I've yet to find an IC, including the Hiline and Chord STA, that betters the stock lavender. The STA works well with the Urika. Hopefully the SL IC will do the trick, whenever it arrives. I think I'll follow up with an email to Roy George who sent me this email back in February!

Hi Steve,

The 4 pin DIN to 5 pin DIN for SuperCap to Preamp will be one of the later cables to come through. I would estimate another 4-6 weeks for our prototypes. Based on the work with statement cables so far I’m fairly optimistic, but let’s see…

Best regards,
Roy

It's possible, given that the cable hasn't materialised in 10 months, that there could be problems with 'tuning' of this particular IC.

Steve

ken c posted:

i'm still slumming it with NACA5. i will need 4x7m of the buggers and that is 8.4K smackeroonies!!! I'll keep eating bread and water for  a while longer -- in fact maybe cut out the bread entirely... 

 

Having seen your system Ken I'm surprised you need 7m lengths of speaker cable.

Steve J posted:

ken c posted:

i'm still slumming it with NACA5. i will need 4x7m of the buggers and that is 8.4K smackeroonies!!! I'll keep eating bread and water for  a while longer -- in fact maybe cut out the bread entirely... 

 

Having seen your system Ken I'm surprised you need 7m lengths of speaker cable.

i could get away with about 6m Steve, but that would be no cheaper than 7m anyhow as i recall. 

enjoy

ken

Hungryhalibut posted:

Well, my ex-dem cables are now sounding even better than they were when first plugged in, which is perhaps not surprising - from the dealer's very chilly store room to my living room. It's very hard to describe what's better; I don't really like resorting to the expressions more real and more musical, but that sums it up really. They really are transformational.

Luckily for me, I can get away with only a 3m pair, and with the ex-dem discount the cost is affordable. Even so they cost me nearly 75% of what I paid for the speakers, which for someone starting out with Naim in 1983 seems really weird. £300 a metre for wire! Bonkers. Until you hear what that gets you of course, when it seems rather good value, in a funny sort of way. In any event, what I've heard this afternoon is enough to have made me pay for them - these aren't going anywhere. 

Well done, Nigel. Pleased to learn that you've given the SL speaker cables a go and are impressed with the difference they make, as some of us have already found.  I expected them to make a positive difference but the performance uplift comfortably exceeded my expectations. So too did the interconnect and the XLR.  Needing only a 3m pair you'll get something of a bargain. 

Mike