USB Regen and Naim DAC-V1

IMO - DAC V1 overall does not benefit from the USB Regen, but rather I get the sense of some loss of 'musicality'

I posted this in this thread:

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...tone-audio-usb-regen

"Whereas the Uptone Regen seems to improve the sound of some recordings on the PC>Chord Hugo USB setup, I find it subtracts too much from the DAC-V1 USB. It does aid or enhance some detail depending on the cables etc,  but it alters the 'musicality' (almost all the time). DAC-V1 gives that illusion at times that you are listening to vinyl on say an 80s LP12/Valhalla/Ittok, but not so with the USB Regen in the path!"

Tareq,

I'm not sure what the Regen brings to the party for the V1, as the V1:

- Does not use the 5V supply from a computer, and

- Makes use of Audiphilleo's USB implementation, which has the master clock built in.

If you do try it, feedback on your findings.

Jude

Agree, I can see little the regen could possibly do, given that the V1 will buffer and re-clock on its own terms, and has galvanic isolation between its circuits and the power from the PC over USB, and will likewise separate itself from the apparently clean power supply of the regen.  Assuming it sounds good, don't mess with it would be my advice.  If it doesn't, you're better off putting the cash toward something that will make a bigger difference.  Like a Hugo obviously, which does actually stand a better chance of benefiting from the regen, even though it's perfect in every way.  ;-)

I have noticed that my speakers sound a little bright/harsh on the high notes, after doing a bit of research it seemed to point to the possibility of the PC dirty electrical circuitry introducing unnecessary noise to the USB input going to the DAC.

I read on the following page (http://www.stereophile.com/con...#U3WsBe8KYFHpXjz5.97) that one possible solution is to “Clean up” the source by using one, or a combination of USB signal “cleaners”.

I am not sure what is the difference between the Schiit Wyrd and the UpTone USB Regen in this department, it looked to me like the USB Regen may be the ideal first step in testing this out however it seems that most are aligned on this forum that the DAC-V1 would not benefit from this.

Not sure if the Schiit Wyrd would have the same negative effect as the UpTone USB Regen, I would be interested in it if it was indeed capable of isolating the dirty PC electronics from the signal path to the Naim DAC V1….

As another solution my Naim dealer asked me to test the Super Lumina cables as he believes they would improve the sound in a considerable way from my current NACA standard speaker cables, the price puts me off thought.

Thanks again for all the feedback, keep it coming

Maybe worth investigating system setup, especially racking, and room layout/acoustics. I've had high/upper mid frequency issues before that I've gone a long way to solving by looking at these areas before making hardware changes.

+1

I was not aware of this, it seems the USB Regen would in effect be doing something that the DAC-V1 would be doing anyway (re-clocking) and if you say that the Naim DAC-V1 ignores the USB 5V power anyway then cleaning up that circuitry using the Schiit Wyrd of USB Regen would be pointless.

Any thing specific that you did to the layout/acoustics that improved this?

Hi Tareq,

Not sure of what the solution would be.  Howver, for folks to feedback to you it would good to understand some of the basics:

- Do you experiences the harshness on all tracks or on specific ones?

- Do you keep all of the system powered up ?

- Has this issue emerged recently or has this always been the case?

- Have you changed anything in your system?

- Have you unconnected and reconnected all leads, ensuring that they are connected firmly (including  

   speaker end)?

- Are you able to tray a different computer?

- Are the speaker drivers loose?

Worth knowing/doing this before leaping to cable changes, source 'cleaners', etc?

FWIW, I've only experienced a sort of harshness if my 282 (which is powered by the 200 and NAPSC) has been switched off for a day or so and for the first day or so after switching on.

Jude

 PS Just seen that others have said similar stuff to me :-)

Yep, which would explain the experience of @Brilliant. In the end though you should have a go if you feel you need to be sure.

My system is always on, I never switch it off unless I am travelling for longer than a week.

The harshness is more evident on some tracks, but I do notice that my volume is lower due to the harshness that creeps in when the volume goes up..

Didn't try the disconnecting and reconnecting the cables yet.... Speakers are in good shape so I am pretty sure it is not the drivers.

I did move up the ladder recently from a NAP200/NAC202/HiCap to a NAP250-DR /SuperCAP-DR along with a NAC282.

I had an old steel Sound Organisation table - replacing it with a wooden Isoblue rack helped a lot. 

If you don't have a dedicated equipment rack, definitely worthwhile. If you are using one, make sure it's level and nothing is loose - especially if you're using Fraim, which seems to require particularly careful setup.

As for room acoustics in general, well, I guess that's a whole new subject. As a starting point, search online for 'Cardas' and take it from there. Trial and error worked for me.  

thijazi,

You have an excellent system.  If you have harshness creeping in at higher replay volume, not evident at lower volumes and not only due to poor recordings, then the cause could be vibration effects.  These can originate from the rack/shelves, cables touching each other or rack etc, or speaker-to-floor interface.

Do you have Naim Fraim?  It is worth checking that things are well adjusted and tight, no micro-rattle anywhere, and cables well dressed.  This all costs nothing from your wallet.

I think this is what ChrisSU is suggesting.

Charle

edit:  i see ChriSU beat me to it.  

The system is sitting on a Fraim Lite (recently setup, which I forgot to mention).. Didn't notice anything lose or rattling, but will double check on this.. I didn't worry too much about leveling it, I used a spirit level to ensure nothing was obviously slanted but this may require a double check.

ChrisSU mentioned Cardas, this also looks like something to dig into..... Seems my next weekend will be full of fun

Another thought.... Are you using any upsampling in the Roon software player and does the V1 pass the bit perfect tests?

Worth checking this out. Upsampling with Audirvana altered the sound for me (lifeless , not harsh)

Jude

I playback either Bitperfect (JRiver) or Roon without any sampling whatsoever.

^Does your HTPC have an SPDIF output? If so you could try that (or any other source) to see if it has an effect on the 'harshness' that is bothering you.  I presume this started after you moved up the ladder or was it there before?

Just checked, no SPDIF output on the HTPC.