Quobuz Receivership

A question has to be, why are high res files charged at a premium? Where they are derived from digital masters there is no processing needed, so arguably should be cheaper than CD quality, or MP3. Charging more is simply a rip-off, except insofar as a reflection of the higher data transfer if that is a cost to the supplier.

Maybe pricing the same -or cheaper - would be an incentive for people to seek higher quality, with inherent better appreciation of the artistry of the musicians...  Or not in the case over over-compressed or poorly mixed recordings.

George, I would like to be clear that never have I said, thought, or even intentionally implied, you are wrong to go mono.  In my view, there is very little, if anything, in this game of hifi vs music that can really be taken as fact, or undeniably correct.  If you're enjoying yourself listening, that's all that matters.  

Dear SongStream,

At least I tried Q_ and it did not work for me because it was - as I put it at the time - badly tagged in the music that was jumbled up. The set up was fine as shown by the fact that it could work properly. 

However I did not really feel inclined to carry on and spend a monthly subscription to something that I found far from ideal.

As for the stereo debate, you are quite right in my view to suggest that the most important thing for people to do is to “enjoy” themselves!

And if my replay caused me anguish rather than enjoyment, I’d sell or give it away sharpish!

Best wishes from George

There is an internet petition to save Qobuz. It is available on the site "change.org"

i just signed ...

A petition to who, and to save it how?  I don't think signatures are going to save us unfortunately.

I have purchased many 24 bit recordings from Qobuz, and I have had more problems with the process than from any other site. A fundamental problem is that their downloader is, at best, flaky. I have wasted many an hour trying to download - particularly the larger files. Often they have admitted to me that there was a technical problem and asked me to download something else instead. They had an illegal policy of not offering a refund in these circumstances. My latest problem was with the Lorin Maazel Sibelius symphonies. A great price is no use if the download doesn't work!

When it came to the new Bob Dylan, I deliberately avoided Qobuz's keen price offer in favour of the hassle free HDtracks download (supported by a 15% discount). 

I liked Qobuz's product offer, pricing, the fact that you could download again and again and that they offered the booklet in many instances, unlike most other sites. But those download blues........

I've found that the downloader works really well, so long as you fire up the downloader first and then select the music from the my music dropdown. It took me a while to work it out, but once mastered it's really easy. 

+1. I downloaded three albums from Qobuz today with no issues at all.

That's great guys, if maybe a bit late! But why didn't they talk me through to the solution? I spent a long time in conversation with them, usually to no avail. Single albums were generally not a problem, but operas and other multi disc offerings were often a nightmare. They suggested that browsers which were not Google Chrome might not work - so why didn't they put that out up front?. I also managed to download some items in the office under Windows 7 which I couldn't download at home over Windows 10, which is where I wanted them, so I had to copy them to USB drives and get them to the home system that way. 

HH, if Qobuz is still there at the weekend I will try (yet again) to download at home the Maazel Sibelius symphonies using your patent method - watch this space!

This petition is destinated to the french ministry of economy and culture. Already 1200 persons signed. It can be useful believe me...

I will also download some additional stuff from them this weekend before they go out of business.

It might help if they e mailed the petition to potential signees. The only mail I've received from them is one about saving some mares in a field in the Rhone. QoBuz certainly need to sharpen up the downloading and make it as easy as bandcamp (no need for any special QoBuz download manager software).

Qobuz have always given me the least hassle with downloading. Their download manager has worked better for me than those of other suppliers. The only issue I have with Qobuz (which may possibly be nothing to do with them although I doubt it) is the inclusion of a multitude of tags, some of which look ridiculous to me. But they are easily edited. Their pricing tends to be competitive too. It's a pity they can't survive but if a business is failing and investment will only prolong the process, it needs to be wound up. No room for sentimentality. However, if there is a good business case for a rescue and recovery model I would be delighted to see it for Quobuz. I think they've been one of the good guys. 

The simple answer is, people are prepared to pay for them, although evidently not enough to sustain a business. I have downloaded one or two so-called HD files out of curiosity but I've never been impressed with their quality. Despite some folk on here raving about how wonderful these specific downloads sounded, I quickly discovered they didn't sound as good as the ripped CDs of the same album (let alone my vinyl copies). It seems to me there is no reliable way of ascertaining the provenance of the HD material on offer. I really do not like being ripped off so I'll not bother with them again.

Re High Res I know this might be obvious but a High Res version of an old recording is a very different proposition to one of new music. As I'm sure we've all found out to our cost; if the original is a bit of a turkey or the re-master is not well done you cannot make a silk purse from a pig's ear!

I have bought several newly released albums from Quboz in high res and been very impressed by the quality-on my system I'd be happy to pay a bit more for music that I'm really keen on. I never bought the Cd as well so cross comparison is hard but I'd be fairly sure they are worth a bit extra.

I still feel the whole pricing level for downloads vs Cd's is wrong though. I cannot see why the physical copies are now becoming cheaper than the download equivalent some of the time.

Bruce

Making direct comparisons is extremely difficult Bruce. The only ones I've been able to directly compare with some degree of confidence that they're from the same mastering/mix is the latest Steven Wilson versions of Yes' Fragile and Yessongs ( a couple of others too) where I've been able to rip the BluRay HD versions of the same file. In this case, yes, the HD versions sound better. Would I pay for the improvement they offer? Maybe, but only a few quid because I don't think the difference is that great. I fancied a copy of Van Morrison's Veedon Fleece in HD. Price? £31. 16 bit, £9. Stupid and just plain greedy.

Qobuz is in receivership because they could not find an investor willing to inject a few millions euros so they can develop and grow, despite an increase of 55% in sales revenue in 2015.

Also, in a recent radio interview, the CEO mentioned sales revenue was split 50/50 between downloads and subscriptions.

The change.org petition (can't add link?) targeting two french ministers is really worth signing even if you use another service or simply if you care about lossless music. Many artists, musicians and label owners signed it. And of course regular users. More than 1500 at this time.

Today it is Qobuz, but tomorrow it could be TIDAL that will be in trouble.

Users and HiFi brands have to step up, nothing is set in stone and guaranteed...

We're a minority vs the majority of people happy using lossy music.

I really don't understand why the big music publishers/record labels aren't interested in investing in streaming. Surely it is a way of getting an extra income stream.

Providers will be able to keep going if we keep buying and buy more, month on month, year on year. It won't happen. Maybe the likes of Apple will be able to persuade people to keep parting with even larger sums of money ad infinitum. Audiophiles/music lovers won't buy all the new releases every week. Could be Qobuz have bet too much of the farm on subscription streaming and done an Icarus.  I don't think a petition is going to help. Tea and sympathy is no substitute for cash. So who is going to club together and raise a few million in unsecured donations?

Qobuz is a business. Investors won't support something they don't think will make money and it doesn't matter how many signatures a petition in support gets. Unfortunate, but unless Qobuz can come up with a more robust business plan they won't survive this.

I always wonder about how the download model works.

If I buy a CD from Amazon then it costs nominally the same as if I buy a download from Qobuz, But the Amazon cost includes shipping (to and from them) and storage and the wages of a few abused people as well as some IT infrastructure costs..

Qobuz just has some IT infrastructure costs.

Even if Qobuz and Amazon pay the music companies the same then there should be some profit for both companies.

I like Qobuz. They get about a third of my music buying money.

This is where personal preference is so polarised. After exploring Qobuz and trying to find search results for desirable content, nothing was there for me.  Qobuz may have been failing since it is so esoteric, niche and curated towards such a small audience. 

Although TIDAL could still hit the rocks at any moment, TIDAL is much more contemporary and the youths are more likely to find it 'groovy'.  TIDAL also seem to be commissioning television programmes now, so it could buy them some time?  If both of these services shut down completely, it wouldn't bother me at all.

I'm just using a free trial subscription to Apple Music (then cancelling to use free Spotify) for non-essential listening and to sample potential purchases. This is fine for casual listening when not motivated enough to buy the complete content in lossless standard. Then for essential listening, CDs can be bought and played on a CD player - now that's 'vintage' for you  

Streaming of music should still have a future, just not at the current asking prices.  There has always been suggestion that Apple Corp. were gearing up to launch lossless and even high-res through their iTunes at some point.  Apple Music is still new and it may be the launch pad for Apple to start offering lossless streaming.