Attacks in Paris

Last verse of Bon Dyan's "With God on our side":

....

So now as I'm leavin'
I'm weary as Hell
The confusion I'm feelin'
Ain't no tongue can tell
The words fill my head
And fall to the floor
If God's on our side
He'll stop the next war.

Peace and love to you all in these very tricky times,whatever the cause...

enjoy(?)...

ken

Sorry Joe, but the US electoral process is nothing but a charade.  The illusion of a choice.  As I believe I have said here, Trump's buffoonery has at least shown the while process to be nothing but a huge reality TV show. One party masquerading as two.  Add to that the ignorance of the average US voter (which is the biggest reason the ruse works so well) and it becomes even more pointless.  I work among college educated people and I bet a fourth of them can't tell you what position John Kerry holds.  And less than a quarter even know who Ash Carter is.  And I am supposed to feel guilty about not voting? 

I don't vote because (a) my vote means nothing (even more so with the electoral college system) and because (b) I could never decide which piece of garbage to vote for. As Mark Twain so aptly put it, "If voting made a difference they wouldn't let us do it."  the whole thing is bought and paid for - especially now that Citizens United has allowed the wholesale purchase to be legal.  Votes don't count, money counts. 

These people running in both parties are borderline psychopaths, and are definitely pathological liars.  A vote for "the lesser of two evils" (as is so often the refrain) is still a vote for evil.  Maybe if we had a parliamentary system I would be more interested since smaller voices may have a chance to be heard, although that hasn't seemed to work out so well either.

And Kevin, that Counterpunch article was mailed to me by a friend - and people tend to be dismissive of anything that isn't from the BBC or NY Times, etc...and I consider those no more or less authoritative or biased than Counterpunch.  OTOH, we had Pulitzer Prize winners like Thomas Friedman carrying the mantle for WMD to make the case for invading Iraq, which was an illegal invasion under known false premises.  That is credible journalism?  That is why I take in news from all kinds of sources, because it's ALL propaganda...just a question of whose.

Just watch a US State Dept briefing - the only guy in there asking any hard questions is Matt Lee from the Associated Press.  The rest I want to go check for a damn pulse. They're not journalists, they're stenographers.

I am not so naive to think that if the US pulls out that life will be butterflies and daffodils. Nor that it would have been squeaky clean had we not intervened in the first place.  But the US has addressed a fire by pouring gasoline on it (with hundreds of thousands of deaths), and there is no denying that the aftermath of the interventions has made the rise of ISIS more possible.  Who knows how much we may have even supported them in our zeal to oust Assad before they became such a force - it wasn't that long ago that Obama referred to them as the "junior varsity."  Good call Barack.

As someone said very well above, letting the cat out of the bag is a lot easier than putting it back in.  And it is also true these sectarian battles between Sunnis, Shiites, and Allah knows who else have been going on for centuries - and NOTHING the West does will change that.  So chide me for not offering any great solutions, but I haven't heard anything else here that sounds like it will work either.

And none of us really know what is going on - there is so much behind the scenes maneuvering and dirty money flying around that it is impossible to really know what is real and what is not.  Apparently Putin shared intelligence at the G20 meeting including satellite reconnaissance "which clearly show the true size of the illegal trade of oil and petroleum products market. Car convoys stretching for dozens of kilometers, going beyond the horizon when seen from a height of four-five thousand meters."  Almost on queue, the US announced it commenced bombing ISIS conveys, as reported in the NYT today.  We've been there for 2+ years and didn't know this was happening? 

what to do ( largely ) is quite clear to the G20.

It is the will and the courage to do what needs to be done - that needs to be on display by the world leaders. 

IMO - It has come to a point where global double standards on terrorism needs to be exposed and the very definition of the word terrorism needs to elaborated in clear detail by the UN / UNSC.

regards

I saw Ambassador Frank Wisner on TV and he was mentioning a joint Surian + Iraqi force to end ISIS.

It made sense to me atleast.

Till that time the US / Russia etc... must put relentless and unsparing pressure on ISIS and not just bomb them with pea-nuts. Their finances and their ability to wage terror must be mercilessly destroyed from the air - without fear or favour.

Thats what the world will watch for now - if the major powers can unite with the objective to defeat terror for the good of humanity or will they continue to be divided by selfish goals ( economic or political )

Here is hoping we have a better world in the near future.

I agree sectarian conflicts have existed in the past as well - but this is something unusual and seems to have gotten out of hand now.

I am from Mumbai and my heart bleeds for Paris and also for other cities where innocents are killed in the name of religion or faith or for terror or even gender ( Boko Haram - Nigeria )

I also know that even today the planners & perpetrators of Mumbai attacks roam free - 2 with my friendly neighbor and one in USA and our investigators are not welcome to investigate & try these perpetrators in our courts.

regards

DrMark,

It's sad for me to hear you attempt to reinforce your rationalization for not voting. In spite of any argument you can put forth the reality is that your lone vote, no matter how meager you view it, is a stronger voice than any words you can write on this forum. The throngs of Americans that choose not to vote make my voice as a voter even more valuable.

I do agree with you that money counts, but that's just a reality of the human condition since day one and will never change. You should try voting in the next election. You may find you feel less disaffected and possibly more credible about what you say in these posts. ATB

+1. DrMark could also try joining a party rather than moan about the state of politics. Politicians are a bunch of thugs: that is the rhetoric of the French National Front.

Today at the G20 summit in Turkey, Putin stated that there are 40 countries funding ISIS, and that some of them are G20 members. He then embarrassed Obama by asking him why the US/NATO has not bombed the convoys of ISIS tankers hauling oil. Later in the day, as if by coincidence, the US/NATO bombed an ISIS convoy of 170 trucks. Interesting...

BBM

I didn't hear what Putin said. Did he say that 40 countries (ie governments) were providing funds, or did he say that individuals from within 40 countries were providing funds ?

Either way, did he put forward an action plan to put an end to this? It is one of the "fronts" that I mentioned a few posts back.

it is my fond hope that the countries we hold in high esteem for democracy and freedoms and values will continue with remain with their head held high and not be shamed by supporting ( directly / indirectly or by looking the other way ) this ISIS - long after this ISIS is gone.

I wondered why hadnt any convoys of fuel been bombed as yet since the satellites in the sky would have pictured everything. USA and GBR and indeed  everyone knows that Oil is a revenue spinner for ISIS.

It is obvious there appears to be a larger game than many of us can comprehend.

I am afraid because this game can take lives of innocent men and women at any time and reduce the victims to a statistic fit only for yearly memorials.

If you ask me - USA and Britain and France & Russia must do much more now.

They must choke ISIS and make it difficult to breathe for them. Anything less would mean that these nations arent doing enough.

The 5 permanent members of the UNSC must get into action mode - atleast now. 

regards

Putin should have asked Obama what americans are doing among the nazi troops in Ukraine....

Regarding the oil convoys, again, this is one of the "fronts" that I mentioned a few posts back ie the black-market exporting of oil (and electricity). This looks like a more concerted effort to reduce the funding streams.

As I said yesterday, the UK has increased its airstrike capability, in the region, although in line with Parliament wishes, they won't be used in Syria - but they will enable Russian, USA, French and others to concentrate more of their strikes in Syria.

Three of them can usually be relied upon to do what is right. Russia can be bloody minded and China bloody obstructive. It takes a lot of diplomacy to get UN agreement to do almost anything. Don't hold your breath !

Agreed.

However, DrMark does provide a possible insight into the minds of the disenchanted and disenfranchised members of our society.

Whilst he clearly isn't party to any terrorist organisation, he could well provide some insight to the thinking of such people and what sort of "help" society needs to provide to win over the hearts and minds of such people.

At the moment, based on DrMarks comments in this thread and other previous threads, I think such people are a "lost cause" and we are wasting our time trying to help them. This is one area in which I desperately hope I am wrong !

The situation - is getting to such a pass that if the 5 high chair members cannot come down from their ivory tower and do what needs to be done - they will risk being a toothless body.

The purpose of these 5 wise men is to maintain a reasonable equilibrium in the globe whilst allowing for some disturbance that would invariably happen.

At the moment each country is fending for itself and doing its own thing which is simply not enough.

Me likes to see all oil convoys stopped in their tracks and the source of funds ( be it from any country or individual or group to be named and shamed )

While we go on about strategy and plans  - let us spare a thought for the small kids in that area whose childhood is being ruined.That is a scar which our generation of leaders will have to take for a long long time.

The above alone is adequate reason for the 5 high chairs to stand up ... get up and finish ISIS in a fixed time frame.

No more vetoes please..

regards

Unfortunately, the UN (and the Security Council) has proven itself to be a toothless outfit for decades. IMHO it needs complete reform, or disbanding.

That is why the USA, Britain and France have acted on the most tenuous nods from the UN these past 20 years or so.

The UN should act, but don't hold your breath !

This is part of my dis-affectation; the US (and its vassals) has been waging illegal war for 15 years but Russia is "bloody minded."  When the Russian jet was shot down Obama didn't even have the class to extend condolences to the Russia government/people.   Those 224 Russians were nothing - they didn't have hopes and dreams and families who loved them, right?  Ditto the 43 in Beirut. 

Russia had been asking to coordinate efforts since they began their operations, but in its typical arrogance and hubris the US government said "no way" - and after the Russia jet ordeal that wasn't compelling enough, but NOW they are thinking of doing something cooperatively.

Gee Don, so bleeping honored that you have deemed me not a terrorist...I'll surely sleep better tonight with your blessing. 

I have previously posted George Carlin's video on why he doesn't vote, so I will not repeat it here, but I find it difficult to point out any falsehood in his logic.

I look at the last 4 elections, and forward to this one, and see NOT ONE person worthy to hold the office, and more to the point, worthy of my vote.  Obama has been as horrible as I knew he would be, but I would have been ashamed to vote for that troglodyte McCain (when is Satan going to call that guy home?), Romney?  Please.  Kerry is as inept as they come, and George Bush (along with others, including Cheney and Tony Blair) should literally be in jail cells somewhere awaiting execution for crimes against humanity. 

And every person running right now is a kleptocrat war-monger; there is not one that is worthy of the office.  I actually think voting only enables the system to continue, because it is the barometer used to determine whether or not their bullshit is still selling.  (Even in spite of current mediocre turnout, it is enough.)  Want to see these bastards sweat?  Hold an election where nobody comes.  THAT might get their attention.  But holding a reality show with 2 sides of the same coin will affect nothing.

I would gladly vote if I even saw a hint of a sign that people were waking up to what is happening, and a candidate would run that remotely was going to try and fix things.  But the system is completely rigged such that when it finally gets down to 2, there is NO possibility of change. Our presidents are selected, not elected.  Anyone who might upset the apple cart won't even get close to the Big Chair...there's too much money invested in keeping things as they are.

And it grieves me to no end that these fools are destroying my country, the greatest nation that ever has been on this planet.  (Although an honest assessment shows that it was largely founded on the genocide of the red man as an concerted US government policy, and heavily built on the slave labor of the black man.)

My country has been the only world power for about 25 years now, and they have run roughshod over the planet because there has been no check on anything they have wanted to do; hence the rise of the now omnipresent & trans-administration neocon faction.  These people are largely the architects of the "Empire of Chaos."  It has been open policy to try and destabilize regions to exploit for economic gain and control, all in the name of "spreading democracy." 

I think voting only encourages them.  Were I uninformed (as are most of my Kim and Kanye following fellow citizens) I could understand the criticism.  But I refuse to participate in something that is nothing more than a charade.  I look at the 13 or so people running, and were I to vote for any one of them my conscience would literally bother me. It would be like advocating murder.  And that doesn't even get into the economic issues, which are going to be the real Waterloo of this country.

Give me someone who is not human garbage and I will gladly rejoin the electorate.  (Or as I said, a parliamentary system might interest me...I actually did cast my vote in Italy's last election.)  But the current corrupt system mitigates against it, & I gave up believing in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy a long time ago.

Besides, I have been saying Killary is going to be the next POTUS for 3 years now, and I will wager a NAP500 that I am correct.

Quite a post that, DrMark,

Well argued, strongly worded, very honest, and imo pretty accurate.  Thought provoking stuff.

Frenchnaim,

Saying a (principled) non voter should join a party is like telling a vegetarian to become a butcher.

As to thugs, surely they are epitomised by the National Front of every country ?  Seems to me a strange twist you've put on that....

The trouble is that the rest of the world has had to deal with the USA's influence all over the world. And clearly we cannot influence it because your neocon etc presidents and their cronies will not hear!

Unless the American people take back control of their politicians then who the hell will?

I hear everything you say Dr Mark but I refuse to accept that just because you think you can't influence your politicians and how they act, you believe you have a moral position to do nothing!

And if that is not what you meant, it seems like what you are saying!

big hugs ( and actually many people out side the USA think Obama hasn't been that bad!)

I have long believed that on ballot papers there should be one more place to put your cross than one for each candidate standing for election.

“None of the above."

If this portion of the votes for “None of the above" exceeded the number who voted for the most popular candidate, then the election should be re-scheduled, and all the current candidates excluded from standing as public rejects in the new ballot. This might shake things up in a positive way!

ATB from George

Always an interesting take, George.

Actually I like this idea.  It has considerable appeal, and sound democratic merit... :-)

If you look back a few years George, you will see that I promoted that same concept. Good idea.

Quite a rant, DrMark. But no real exposition of the sort of "help" society needs to provide to win over the hearts and minds of disillusioned people. Let me try another tack:-

If you lived in the UK would you be prepared to vote for (a) Jeremy Corbin (Labour) ? (b) Nicola Sturgen (Scottish Nationalist Party) ? If so, why. If not, why not.

Don,

Bombing the oil tanker convoys is not a new concept, so don't try to take credit for it. I have read many articles over the past 8 to 10 months that have addressed that very concept.

To think that the US/NATO had not bombed a single convoy until Putin stated the fact at the G20 says a lot IMO.

You should read up on the Yinon Plan so you can understand what's really going on in Syraq...

BBM 

Yes, what I meant was that for the National Front all politicians are thugs - it has always been one of their main arguments. We'll see who are the thugs, now that Marine Le Pen is in a position to win...

And George is basically right - that is what a lot of people in France and elsewhere have been asking for for ages. But it seems difficult to apply when more than half of the voters don't bother... as is the case in the US.