National anthems

Posted by: Bruce Woodhouse on 18 November 2015

Much was made of the combined singing of La Marseillaise at Wembley but if you actually read the words it is deeply unpleasant with more than whiff of facist overtones.

 

Arise, children of the Fatherland

The day of glory has arrived

Against us tyranny's Bloody banner is raised

Do you hear, in the countryside

The roar of those ferocious soldiers? They're coming right into your arms

To cut the throats of your sons, your women!

To arms, citizens! Form your battalions

Let's march, let's march

Let an impure blood

Water our furrows!

 

Now I'm no fan of our dirge UK anthem but even if less dodgy it still has a militaristic flavour. I have a feeling that most nations follow the same pattern. I just wondered if it was about time that we revised these totally dated ideas for something rather more reasonable. Maybe just ditch the whole idea completely!

 

Personally I'd go for Jerusalem; but that is mainly because it is a great tune.

Posted on: 19 November 2015 by TOBYJUG

Perhaps when the queen finally snuffs it we might get a nice new one. - without any mention of God in it .

Posted on: 19 November 2015 by osprey
No so much war in ours although there has been fair share of that in the past also.

Our land is poor, so it remains,
if you long for gold
A stranger sure abandons it,
but to us, the most precious land is this,
its wilds, islands, mainlands,
to us, they are golden.

(The second verse of eleven, normally only the first is sung in the sporting events though)
Posted on: 19 November 2015 by Bruce Woodhouse

Where is that Osprey?

Posted on: 19 November 2015 by osprey
Finland. However, it's debatable how much of our anthem actually is Finnish. The melody is by a German composer (stolen from a drinking song) and the text by a Swedish poet translated to Finnish.
Posted on: 19 November 2015 by Bananahead
Originally Posted by TOBYJUG:

Perhaps when the queen finally snuffs it we might get a nice new one. - without any mention of God in it .

And hopefully without any royalty in it .

Posted on: 19 November 2015 by Huge

Advance Australia Fair is notably non-militaristic and secular:

 

Australians all let us rejoice,

For we are young and free;

We've golden soil and wealth for toil;

Our home is girt by sea;

Our land abounds in nature's gifts

Of beauty rich and rare;

In history's page, let every stage

Advance Australia Fair.

In joyful strains then let us sing,

Advance Australia Fair.

 

Beneath our radiant Southern Cross

We'll toil with hearts and hands;

To make this Commonwealth of ours

Renowned of all the lands;

For those who've come across the seas

We've boundless plains to share;

With courage let us all combine

To Advance Australia Fair.

In joyful strains then let us sing,

Advance Australia Fair.

 

 

But despite that, there's still no place in it for the indigenous people!

Posted on: 19 November 2015 by BigH47

I personally think the words of the Spanish National anthem are the best.

Posted on: 19 November 2015 by Huge
Originally Posted by BigH47:

I personally think the words of the Spanish National anthem are the best.

¿Por qué?  No habla Espagnol.

Posted on: 19 November 2015 by BigH47
Originally Posted by Huge:
Originally Posted by BigH47:

I personally think the words of the Spanish National anthem are the best.

¿Por qué?  No habla Espagnol.

No need!

Posted on: 19 November 2015 by Tony2011
Originally Posted by Huge:
Originally Posted by BigH47:

I personally think the words of the Spanish National anthem are the best.

¿Por qué?  No habla Espagnol.

 

original:

 

Viva España! 
Cantemos todos juntos 
con distinta voz 
y un solo corazón. 


¡Viva España! 
Desde los verdes valles 
al inmenso mar, 
un himno e hermandad. 


Ama a la Patria 
pues sabe abrazar, 
bajo su cielo azul, 
pueblos en libertad. 


Gloria a los hijos 
que a la Historia dan 
justicia y grandeza 
democracia y paz.

 

translation:

 

Long live Spain! 
We sing together, 
with different voices, 
and only one heart.

 

Long live Spain! 
From the green valleys, 
to the immense sea, 
a hymn of brotherhood.

 

Love the Fatherland, 
which knows how to embrace, 
below the blue sky, 
people in freedom.

 

Glory to the sons, 
who to history give, 
justice and greatness, 
democracy and peace.

Posted on: 19 November 2015 by Frenchnaim
Originally Posted by Bruce Woodhouse:

Much was made of the combined singing of La Marseillaise at Wembley but if you actually read the words it is deeply unpleasant with more than whiff of facist overtones.

 

Arise, children of the Fatherland

The day of glory has arrived

Against us tyranny's Bloody banner is raised

Do you hear, in the countryside

The roar of those ferocious soldiers? They're coming right into your arms

To cut the throats of your sons, your women!

To arms, citizens! Form your battalions

Let's march, let's march

Let an impure blood

Water our furrows!

 

Now I'm no fan of our dirge UK anthem but even if less dodgy it still has a militaristic flavour. I have a feeling that most nations follow the same pattern. I just wondered if it was about time that we revised these totally dated ideas for something rather more reasonable. Maybe just ditch the whole idea completely!

 

Personally I'd go for Jerusalem; but that is mainly because it is a great tune.

La Marseillaise was composed in 1792 - times have changed, Austria's on our side now...

I suppose France should apologise to the Austrians, but National Anthems are meaningless anyway. And Jerusalem is also about the "dark satanic mills" of industrial England.

Posted on: 19 November 2015 by Huge
Originally Posted by Frenchnaim:
Originally Posted by Bruce Woodhouse:

... 

Personally I'd go for Jerusalem; but that is mainly because it is a great tune.

La Marseillaise was composed in 1792 - times have changed, Austria's on our side now...

I suppose France should apologise to the Austrians, but National Anthems are meaningless anyway. And Jerusalem is also about the "dark satanic mills" of industrial England.

And times have also changed for England...

 

Jerusalem is not about the dark Satanic mills, but about the opposite: Building a just society despite opposition by the vested interests of the establishment.  Furthermore were Blake to see what we have now (especially after the end of the 'cold war') he'd believe we have gone a long way toward building his allegorical 'Jerusalem'.

 

 

P.S. it's not actually suitable as a national anthem for the UK as it specifically states "England".

Posted on: 19 November 2015 by Bruce Woodhouse
Originally Posted by Tony2011:
Originally Posted by Huge:
Originally Posted by BigH47:

I personally think the words of the Spanish National anthem are the best.

¿Por qué?  No habla Espagnol.

 

original:

 

Viva España! 
Cantemos todos juntos 
con distinta voz 
y un solo corazón. 


¡Viva España! 
Desde los verdes valles 
al inmenso mar, 
un himno e hermandad. 


Ama a la Patria 
pues sabe abrazar, 
bajo su cielo azul, 
pueblos en libertad. 


Gloria a los hijos 
que a la Historia dan 
justicia y grandeza 
democracia y paz.

 

translation:

 

Long live Spain! 
We sing together, 
with different voices, 
and only one heart.

 

Long live Spain! 
From the green valleys, 
to the immense sea, 
a hymn of brotherhood.

 

Love the Fatherland, 
which knows how to embrace, 
below the blue sky, 
people in freedom.

 

Glory to the sons, 
who to history give, 
justice and greatness, 
democracy and peace.

That is good.

 

I agree with Huge about the meaning behind Jerusalem. Billy Bragg has recorded it, and written about it; excerpt below

 

Jerusalem would also make a great anthem for England because it's a song about idealism. While the Scottish anthem, Flower of Scotland, goes on about beating the English 600 years ago, Jerusalem talks of the future, of fighting for something yet to be achieved "till we have built Jerusalem in England's green and pleasant land".

Some detractors have sarcastically asked why should we want to built a Middle Eastern city in England. Duh! Blake isn't talking literally. Again, he is using mystical imagery. His metaphorical Jerusalem is an aspiration, an ideal we should aim for as a nation, be it in sport or in society as a whole. "I shall not cease from mental fight, nor shall my sword sleep in my hand", the closing lines are actually saying, until we have achieved this glorious aim in England's green and pleasant land.

After all, Hubert Parry originally set Blake's poem to music for a rally in support of the Votes for Women campaign in 1918. The Women's Institute adopted it later. Devoid of the jingoism that makes so many good tunes from that time sound dreadfully dated, Jerusalem's radical roots make it relevant to everyone in modern England

 

As for it being English, well Wales and Scotland are not short of good tunes if they want one of their own-although as a nation only one can really sing!

 

Bruce

Posted on: 19 November 2015 by Frenchnaim

That is open to debate, of course (oh no, not another debate!!! let's talk about Naca5 instead...).

 

Furthermore were Blake to see what we have now (especially after the end of the 'cold war') he'd believe we have gone a long way toward building his allegorical 'Jerusalem'.

Posted on: 19 November 2015 by Frenchnaim

Incidentally, I find Billy Bragg's interpretation extremely appealing, but aren't all anthems about aspiration and pride anyway? La Marseillaise is also about a better world, a world devoid of tyrants...

Posted on: 19 November 2015 by Mike-B

Billy Connelly had the best idea with the Archers theme tune .......

Ironic that "The Queen" encourages Marshal Wade to ...... 

..... like a torrent rush, 
Rebellious Scots to crush.

Posted on: 19 November 2015 by Hook

I like the South African anthem. It was adopted in 1994, and is sung in the country's five most spoken languages: Xhosa, Zulu, Sesotho, Afrikaans and English.

 

I also like that by the 1995 RWC, the Springboks had learned all of the words and were able sing it, with feeling, from beginning to end.

 

Hook

Posted on: 19 November 2015 by Bert Schurink

The national anthem is about bringing accross the emotion of belonging to a country. I think everybidy can feel that emotion in important moments, like what happened in Paris for the French. The words are very often old and meaningless......, but in fact don't matter as the emotion get's passed on.

 

i am not a fan of anthems by the way, just get an emotion of my own Dutch anthem....

Posted on: 19 November 2015 by kuma

Here's Japanese Anthem "Kimigayo".

She's got a lovely voice.

English translation of the lyrics:

May your reign
Continue for a thousand, eight thousand generations,
Until the pebbles
Grow into boulders
Lush with moss

 

Taken from haiku, it's short, sweet and pretty low key.

Posted on: 19 November 2015 by King Size
Originally Posted by Hook:

I like the South African anthem. It was adopted in 1994, and is sung in the country's five most spoken languages: Xhosa, Zulu, Sesotho, Afrikaans and English.

 

I also like that by the 1995 RWC, the Springboks had learned all of the words and were able sing it, with feeling, from beginning to end.

 

Hook

Agree, i like it too and think it should be a powerful symbol of unity.  South Africa had two national anthems - 'The Call of South Africa' and "'Nkosi Sikelel' iAfrika'" - between 1994 and 1997 when they were combined to create the new national anthem.  A literal translation is below

 

God bless Africa
Let its horn be raised,
Lord bless us, we are the family of it.
Lord bless our nation,
Stop wars and sufferings,
Save it, save our nation,
The nation of South Africa, South Africa.
From the blue of our skies,
From the depth of our sea,
Over everlasting mountains,
Where the echoing cliffs resound in answer
Sounds the call to come together,
And united we shall stand,
Let us live and strive for freedom
In South Africa our land.

 

Posted on: 19 November 2015 by joerand

I can do without references to god in national anthems but always thought "O Canada" was a particularly lovely melody. I enjoy listening to the various anthems at Olympics medals ceremonies; emotional events with anthems performed sans lyrics.