Demo of NAP500 vs NAP500DR

Sounding +ve then.... good!

Interesting comment as well wrt. the SL speaker cable.

Richard

Has the cost of the upgrade (excluding servicing) been released yet?

Thanks DB. From what you're saying the transition following the upgrade should be quite smooth if it's only the 500 head unit involved. I still haven't decided whether to upgrade or PX for a new 500DR.

Steve,

What benefits and disadvantages do you see as regards a PX compared to an upgrade?

I am booked for a service and upgrade.
Richard

It depends on the deal Richard.

Fair enough.

My own set of NAP500 are still probably two or three years from really needing a service, but I will get the service done as well, as overall the cost will be lower that getting the upgrade then later getting a service, as well as the units being away for three weeks.

I found the run-in of the NAP500 to be really horrible, so expect that again for a couple of weeks before it all settles-in a bit, then another few months before it really opens-out and begins to perform as it should. In fact mine took nine months plus and they were still improving and at a year they had settled-in to superb performance.

My Dealer says it is batch-dependent and some settle quickly and others take a long time. I only know what I experienced.

I did ask if PX deal would come anywhere near the service and upgrade cost - no a lot more expensive.

DB.

Just to join in, there are deals out there.

I was recently able to trade in my five year old NAP 300 for the DR version, at a figure only a few hundred pounds more than the cost of having the upgrade carried out.

The advantages, as I see it, are a factory fresh unit, with five year warranty, and no interruption to the music.

This was from my go to dealer, so it's certainly worth phoning around; you never know.

Not the 500, but lifted from another topic my views re: 300 ;

Been to my dealer today to pick up my 3m SL speaker and SL DIN/DIN I.C. cable. Less than 2 weeks from ordering them. Pleasantly surprised how quickly they arrived.

At the time of ordering I asked for the price of a new 300DR against my non DR300.

 I was seriously considering upgrading the existing 300. He contacted me yesterday with an offer.

I've decided to px my 2 year old 300 for a new 300DR.

Why? :

1. reasonable px offer

2. get it sooner rather than some time next year.

3. 5 year warranty re-established

4. more comfortable with a purpose built 300DR than a modified one. No disrespect to Naim or people who choose the mod route.

Disadvantage is the time to run in the new boxes.

DB, it was a long awaited thread and finally we heard from you !

As usually well-worded write-up which pushed me to try the same tracks in my system (thanks to Tidal !). 

The verdict was totally expected, including the impact from switching 500PS, and I was mostly intrigued on whether you would give a chance to NAP S1 against triple NAP500DR ...

I'm not sure if the price difference between new NAP S1 minus earnings from selling 3 x NAP500, SNAXO, SC and 7 Fraims shelves  against 3 x NAP500DR upgrades would be dramatic for someone who can afford NAC S1. 

At least I'm curious if such a demo was ever done at Naim factory or some filthy rich show room.

AMA,

I've remaining Active - I prefer the more lively presentation without the Passive Crossover. I'm sure the Statement Mono-blocks are better than NAP500DR, but can't afford the four minimum (presuming I parallel-up the twin S800 bass drivers) at £200k.

Even Passive pair at £100k plus purchase of passive S800 crossover, including any reasonable trade-ins is too expensive compared to the alternative path I have chosen, so for under £15k I will have three as-new serviced 500DR Amps Active, which I'm sure I will prefer.

To be honest what I have already with the 'old' NAP500 Active is superb, so the upgrade is really to be part of the service I had planned for a couple of years time brought forward.

Anyway - it is what I'm doing.

DB.

Thank you for taking the time and trouble. Good stuff.

i believe this is the first time a fellow 'forumite' (?) has reviewed 500 vs 500DR -- and so thanks DB for sharing this. of course, this upgrade is also in my radar, but all in good time :-)

enjoy

ken

There has been a lot of talk and not much light about the DR 500, so I thought I'd have a listen.

It was only a brief demo to get an idea of what the difference was, which I think I gained for myself anyway.

Proper demo with the 552 is what most will need to really do, as the S1 pre imparts a markedly different sonic signature - or better said, is more neutral. The S1 has far more bass power and control, so the signature of the 500DR seems to match that well, in being lighter on its feet with the low-end response - a more agile and mercurial performer to my ears.

The 500DR does sound quite different to the non-DR 500 and it has taken some time for it all to sink-in for me. The non-DR 500 by comparison sounded somewhat more coloured and a little harder and a little less sparkle at the top-end. Having said all that the non-DR 500 still sounded confident detailed and accomplished - just that the 500DR took the performance to a new and higher level.

I think that set-up will matter from what my Dealer was describing they found - it was similar to what I find in my Active system, so hearing more also lets you hear problems if you have them.

But when all set-up well it performed very well, so it will be interesting to get my hands on these in future.

DB.

as a matter of interest, what are these special set-up requirements that the 500DR requires that the 500 just 'forgives'?

enjoy...

ken

No disrespect to anyone here, but I have heard SL speaker cable on NAP 500, I would add that it was brand new, and not run in, but after hearing 250DR and being very familiar with 552/500, the nature of changes with the new 009 transistor and the better DR regulation are where I would put my money first.

There is an inky blackness from which notes emerge (which no cable - whether interconnect/XLR and speaker cable) I have heard could achieve on NAP 500), the noise floor is much better, transients are faster, and just more musical and engaging. I do agree that it does not make the non DR amps sound bad, but just takes them to another league.

So much so that I would not purchase a non DR amp (whether 300 or 500) now, even at a huge discount, and would pay for the DR amps (either upgrade or full price). And this is only after hearing the 250DR. 

The old 250.2 didn't make it in my home, I just could not get on with it.

I know that this is a 500DR thread, I just have a lot of positive thoughts on the 009 and the DR improvements.

So the SL speaker cable didn't make that much of an dramatic jaw dropping improvement on a NAP 500 to my ears (but it needs to run in as it was brand new) , compared to another cable which was equally not run in and brand new, but provided quite a better performance than NACA5. Without a doubt in my mind, I would get a 250.2/300/500 to DR before investing money on cables.

I think you need to look at the total picture, if you have great amps like the 500's they deserve great cables like the super lumina, otherwise the performance can't unfold as good as it could in theory. My super lumina have had a great impact on my overall sound. If I in the future at some point in time make the upgrade to the dr I will have the double benefit, now I am just enjoying my existing system which is already on a great level.

Bert thanks for the feedback but I am fairly certain anyone who hears a DR version of the amp and compare it with the older one, will find it extremely difficult to resist the upgrade.

On the other hand NACA5 was good enough to show me exactly what the 250DR does.

Only some positive encouragement from me, if you haven't heard a DR amp, you are in for a real pleasant surprise 

I'm sure you're correct in this, but the SL speaker cable has been a significant improvement over the NACA5 in my system (non DR 300).

A new 300DR is in the pipeline though.

p.s. I see you've just added to your post after this reply was made.

First I want to ensure that I have collected the funds before listening.....

Having being offered a PX deal on my 11 year old 500 of 5K from one dealer and 8K from another the decision was easy.  I have booked an upgrade and service with my local dealer.

Same here Roger. A Naim service leaves you with an amp as good as new, can't see the point of going for a new one myself.

I think the PX deals on the 300 are now less attractive than they were due the number of SH 300s now available and the performance difference making non-DR less appealing. The SH price really has to anticipate the cost of the upgrade. 

I don't expect that people will believe these things until they hear them for themselves, so it is just information to help those that do. 

It is not that the old 500 was forgiving - I never actually said that, as run Active they need a lot of care to sing right I have found. Nothing 'special', just dressing the cables right and the usual stuff - my Dealer did tell me they had to re-configure their rig to allow for better cable-dressing for this demo, as when they had the S1Pre crammed into a neat-looking collection of boxes it sounded awful. Information which people can choose to ignore if they have their own views of how it should be, but I wanted to describe the set-up criteria, that is all.

But the overall Passive system level was raised by the inclusion of the 500DR to a level where it now has more of the revealing attributes I associate with non-DR 500 Active is what I tried to communicate, but perhaps I shouldn't really try.

And throwing NAC A5 into it instead of SL speaker leads would throw-away most of the upgrade IMO - but I'm sure you would still get something through. NAC A5 buggers-up the low bass and the 500DR gives you better articulation in the low bass, so it works into the weakness of the NAC A5 - but I agree we all hear it differently and some may like the bloated effect which I didn't.

DB.

I suppose the choice between SL speaker cable vs. 500 DR upgrade will be a difficult one to pin down without a home dem of both for comparison. The cost of each is roughly the same, dependant of course on cable length required. So if one didn't exactly have £3.5 - £4.5K burning a hole in their pocket and could only go for one upgrade for the foreseeable future, which would it be?

Not having heard either (other than the SL cable as part of an S series pre/power dem - so not much to draw from really) my heart says the 500 DR. I suspect opinion may be divided, and based on individual systems, rooms, preference etc. Or is their a clear winner.