Demo of NAP500 vs NAP500DR

Is it me or am I reading a not so "over the moon" and "delighted" response as regards the 500DR upgrade compared to that of the 300 say?

Is the 500DR sounding a bit too analytical to some or am I reading it all wrong?

Richard

Richard,

Don't know whether you spotted my post on the previous page, but you might want to cast a glance at the Fishy thing, currently back on page 1.

Regards,

Dave.

Having already equipped my system with the SL speaker leads I will now get the 500 DR update done from what I heard, but I would not have done it the other way around is what I tried to say.

It somewhat amazes me when people say the cable options are 'to taste' as if it is a minor tweak to the sound, but we seem to hear things rather differently, presuming that it has actually been auditioned.

To be clear - the 500 already had multiple internal discrete regulators so a lot of the performance lift the DR improvement did to Amps that internally had to share only one DR per rail would not be as apparent. Having said all this, it gets the 009 Output Power Transistor update and the lower noise on the DR regulators make their improvement. It is just that the NAP500 started out pretty good to begin with.

Of the two demos I had: For the SL speaker Leads and the DR 500, the former impressed me the most with how it transformed the performance of my system, whilst the latter I considered a very worthwhile improvement, but somewhat less than what the cables brought.

But the improvements are different and complementary, as I tried to describe previously. It is not a linear scale of 'improvement' that is is dished-out a bit here and a bit there.

The SL cables lower the noise floor drastically and give a darker less congested performance and subjectively make the amp seem more powerful, because more power is going into the music I want rather than cable-induced artifacts.

The DR changes on the NAP500 also increase clarity and dynamic linearity (how music performs on loud bits), but not really the subjective noise floor lowering as much across the top to bottom frequency ranges from what I heard demoed. It did improve low frequency harmonic distortion considerably and give a cleaner faster sound. It definitely is a leaner sound than the old 500, so in systems where the bass is a bit too weighty it should nicely fit.

It would be good if a Dealer could demo old NAP 500 with SL speaker leads vs NAP 500 DR using NAC A5 to see what prospective purchaser preferred.

It may be personal preference on what people like for the kinds music they play.

DB.

Looks like.

One anecdotal report from one person who didn't do the comparison at home in his system (which would have been difficult).

Fascinating reading. Good subsequent discussion. Hardly a consensus, since nobody else involved has heard one - of have I got that wrong?

What I find bemusing, is that these perceivable upward steps in performance can be so significant starting from what is already a pretty high price point. Whilst price-wise they do seem to be following the law of diminidhing returns, with costs seemingly going up exponentially with each step, I would expect differences by that level of system to be pretty minor/subtle at least unless the listener has exraordinarily sensitive/trained ears. Otherwise my only conclusion is how far from "perfect" the NAP500 must be...  

That very consideration depends on the listener's idea of perfection in sound reproduction - and of course it is possible that even if the sound were to be absolutely indistinguishable from the original performance (taking an example of an unprocessed recording captured direct from a pair of microphones), some people would still want to hear something it sounding 'better' (leaner, tighter, more rhythmic, whatever).

That leads me to be curious: I get the impression that most people enter the Naim amplification arena somewhere from the 250 downwards, presumably comparing with amps at similar price points from other manufacturers. Having then become hooked on Naim, from there on up does anyone ever do auditions of other amps as options to Naim upgrades? 

Yes - all the hifi forums have contributors who once had Naim electronics and moved on after having heard other options.

You'll have to listen and decide for yourself. Then such observations will begin to be meaningful, in as much as anything so subjective ever can be.

In my highly subjective view, the 500 does not represent a diminishing return over the 300. Like the 300 compared to the 250, the 500 compared to the 300 is completely different. You can't convey it with adjectives and numbers. You have to hear it. Each of us will have our own idea of what represents VFM and where the tipping point is. Our circumstances and our ears are not interchangeable.

This is how I also hear it.

I used to own 3x NAP300 Active and I was persuaded, by a 10 day home demo, to upgrade to 3x NAP500. This was a big deal financially for me at that time, so I needed convincing.

I think, from the brief but I think well-presented demo I had at my Dealer, Signals, that the DR uplift is very well worth the money, if one has it available and there are no competing places for that money to go.

But many many years ago I learned that it is easy to unbalance a system, so it is always worth hearing the changes as a whole in the proposed system. That is difficult for some things and some people's circumstances, hence it is good to discuss all the items in the signal chain that impact on performance.

I did not hear the NAP500DR with NAC A5 so cannot really comment if it musically works well with that cable as much as it did the SL speaker lead. I did find that the SL DIN-XLR interconnect lead did not like NAC A5 when I tried it in my system.

DB.

Good reports Gary. Keep 'em coming.

There is logically, a psychological purchase-resistance barrier with cables costing a lot of money. A black box upgrade might seem like better value, but one should evaluate on pure audible differences.

Being fortunate to own and enjoy a full SL loom on my Naim system, I know where Gary and other 'Acolytes of the Lumina' are coming from. The cables bring something fundamentally enjoyable and organic to the way the music is delivered and perceived. The amp DR upgrades are a different sonic kettle of fish.

As ever, it's down to personal taste and a good dealer should be able to demonstrate what its all about.

The value for money equation for all consumer goods? Simple. If one can afford it; it's good value and possibly an 'investment' (Ha ha).

If one cannot afford it; it's ridiculous and daft.

Good listening y'all. 

John.

There term 'caveat emptor' comes to mind and it's generally very important to listen to a new component in the home system. However it can sometimes prove difficult to do this and, in the case of the 500DR, my past experience with the great success of the previous DR upgrades, and the fact I already have the SL cables, mean I'm happy to take a punt on the 500DR with what I see as very little risk. If the improvement is as I expect then I'll be very happy, if the improvement is small then ce la vie. 

It is not a small improvement. It is a very worthwhile and musically-enhancing improvement, especially if you have the SL cables; it was developed and tested with these in mind so it would work well with these.

It injects into a passive system some of the life and energy you get in an Active system. In an Active system I'm hoping it will please me rather a lot!

DB.

Unlikely to be much of a punt, more a sure thing. But one can never say for certain. I think you're in a punting majority on this occasion.

Indeed. You have to listen. Some people don't understand how the 300 could be loved next to a 250. Whereas I have no love for the 250 at all. Each to our ears.

I don't mean to insult anybody here, just trying to insert some sanity in these conversations. But when some individual states in no uncertain terms that it's OK to drop $20,000.00 dollars on cables (SICK) because their $200,000.00 system without it is unlistenable is a farce. To an outsider this might look like, why try to fix something that is so obviously broke from the outset that you need $40,000.00 dollars worth of cable to fix the shortcomings of the brand. Maybe you should be asking yourself, was it a mistake to begin with?  

OH DEAR.......did you just s...say bro........broken there ? 

Indeed. What followed is not anything about what I actually wrote - I never said anything about things being broken. Careful re-reading will correct.

DB.

It was not entirely directed at you, you might want to re-read this entire post!

OK - not entirely at me is makes a lot of difference. Welcome to my block list!

Very good point Sam  ATB Peter

Oh heavens, how will I go on now that I am on your block list!