Firmware update 4.11.8 for Naim DAC - so what about sound quality?

For people wondering the binary code: I already e-mailed Naim about it and they replied to me that there is an error in the instructions on the chart to decode the lighting sequence. The correct code is just as Charliep wrote:

00100

01011

01000

joerand posted:

CharlieP posted:

I am enjoying some of my favorite wav files from a USB stick in the rear port.  

Charlie,

You forgot the exploding suasage after that statement 

GraemeH posted:

If it competes with a Hugo now I'd happily reinvest...anyone?

 

G

Like I have posted before, I have this blind test with 2 audiophile friends who are not naim owners. After swapping between nDac and Hugo, they much prefer the nDac presentation but concur Hugo has kind of "younger" voicing and much wider soundstaging. Ok, one can say cables make a difference and so on but still it really does not mean Hugo is always better or vice versa, it depends on listener's preference. I believe majority of naim owners here still owned nDAC despite Hugo is favoured by a certain number of forumers. 

Mikapoh,

What firmware is on your nDAC, to which your post applies?  I very much like the nDAC right now, but I have not heard the Hugo.

Wat,

Waiting to here your considered aopinion...

Charlie

CharlieP posted:

Mikapoh,

What firmware is on your nDAC, to which your post applies?  I very much like the nDAC right now, but I have not heard the Hugo.

Wat,

Waiting to here your considered aopinion...

 

Charlie

Charlie,

My nDac firmware is the original firmware which I have never bother to update at all. But with the latest firmware, I am very intrigued to update it and find out what it has brought to the party. However, it looks very promising at the moment from some of us who have updated the firmware. I can't wait to go home to try...... my respect for Naim will gain enormously if what have posted here are true. Perhaps, this is the reward from Naim for their loyal DAC owners who choose to stay on despite rivals have caught up or Naim want to prove that they are capable to up the DAC game in a very cost effective way.

Can Hugo be firmware upgraded?

Could anybody teach me how to uograde to the new FW? 

I have tried to upgrade but l dunno if it is a new FW cos l just see the button ' clock' and #3 are lighted at the same time, it keeps me in the dark!

Thx

Valentino Wl So posted:

Could anybody teach me how to uograde to the new FW? 

I have tried to upgrade but l dunno if it is a new FW cos l just see the button ' clock' and #3 are lighted at the same time, it keeps me in the dark!

Thx

With DAC off, hold the Dock button down as you turn the switch on (power switch on rear), then note the lights as they blink on.  This is all explained in the update instructions .pdf file which is zipped with the update package.

Good Luck,

Charlie

mikapoh posted:

 I believe majority of naim owners here still owned nDAC despite Hugo is favoured by a certain number of forumers. 

As you say, seems too often the same vociferous Hugo owners with their repeated espousings. Well-placed, reserved posts by other Hugo owners certainly carry more weight. Of the four fellow forum members homes I visited recently three had the nDAC, one a Rega DAC. Perhaps they never heard a Hugo or just never felt the need.

joerand posted:

mikapoh posted:

 I believe majority of naim owners here still owned nDAC despite Hugo is favoured by a certain number of forumers. 

Well-placed, reserved posts by other Hugo owners certainly carry more weight. 

Well, TBH these so called "vociferious" Hugo owners deserve some credits. If not proclamation of their passions, I believe the nDAC update would not be on top of Naim's agenda.

Zeny posted:

Can Hugo be firmware upgraded?

Yes, the Hugo firmware can be upgraded. Apparently the firmware currently uses all the processing resources of the device so I believe a firmware with new features is unlikely.. a bug fix firmware is possible should any bugs be found.. but it's QA must have been sound as I don't think there has been any bug fixes since launch.

Regarding Hugo and NDAC.. I have owned the NDAC with 555PS and I loved it .. I preferred it to the NDS with 555PS (my reviews are on the forum). I later tried a Hugo.. (again my reviews are on the forum ).. and now I use a Hugo with my 252DR/250.2.. but all these components are of exceptional sonic quality and all of them deserve careful consideration and auditioning... Their differences (other than superficial tonal balance) are not really appreciated through casual listening..

Simon

CharlieP posted:

OK, I installed 4.11.8, as released today.  I am enjoying some of my favorite wav files from a USB stick in the rear port.  Wow!  I do think the official release improves even further on the beta v4.11.7 in sound quality.  This latest release has even more of what I liked about improvements delivered in the beta release.  Do any beta testers or anyone from Naim care to comment?  

So far have been listening to 15/44.1 up to 24/192 wav files.  Have yet to collect DSD files for music about which I care.  No doubt, that might deliver further revelations...

Three "Hip, Hip, Hooray!"s for the Naim team.

 

Charlie

Apparantly there is no difference between the beta release and the official 4.11.8 release (other than number).  My only excuse for hearing better sound is that I have not listened to the rear USB for a while, and it was sounding better than my usual SPDiF input from Audirvana on the Mac Mini.

But, my, it all sounds really good to me.  If Hugo is better, then fine, but I have little curiosity for upgrades at the moment.  I am just enjoying the music.

And this is a really substantial sound qulity improvement, at zero cost!

Charlie

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Zeny posted:

Can Hugo be firmware upgraded?

Yes, the Hugo firmware can be upgraded. Apparently the firmware currently uses all the processing resources of the device so I believe a firmware with new features is unlikely.. a bug fix firmware is possible should any bugs be found.. but it's QA must have been sound as I don't think there has been any bug fixes since launch.

Regarding Hugo and NDAC.. I have owned the NDAC with 555PS and I loved it .. I preferred it to the NDS with 555PS (my reviews are on the forum). I later tried a Hugo.. (again my reviews are on the forum ).. and now I use a Hugo with my 252DR/250.2.. but all these components are of exceptional sonic quality and all of them deserve careful consideration and auditioning... Their differences (other than superficial tonal balance) are not really appreciated through casual listening..

Simon

 

 

I also moved from NDX:NDAC/555PS to Hugo without regret but the recent step-up in performance following the NDX firmware update has me wondering about the relative performance of the 'new' NDAC.  Ideally I would like a matching system...But only if the sonics cut the mustard.

G

There is very little change detectable following this firmware upgrade for my system.  Initially it sounds like the soundstage has expanded however it becomes a case of maybe yes, maybe no over extended listening.  I'm not experiencing the substantial leaps in performance that others have described.  Is this all source dependant?

Furthermore there is the Chord 2Qute DAC which still sounds much more preferable.  It has a bolder, more full-bodied sound with an overall more complete representation of the recorded music.  Bass is firmer with a punchy delivery and a large 'depth of field' so the sound propels outwards of the speakers to immerse you in the music.  This is without it becoming 'too hi-fi' as well, as it still has great musical rhythmic drive and zesty quality.

By switching back to Naim DAC (older or newer firmware), the soundscape just gets sucked back in to the speakers and the music sounds more lossy and compressed.

The reality check is that a firmware ugrade isn't a hardware upgrade.  The determining factor must be the DAC processor used by Chord - their own version created by the DAC boffin compared to the Texas Instruments version used in Naim DAC, which is fairly common across many other brands.  So the hardware technology has evolved that much since Naim DAC was first launched.  Still if you are now hearing better things from the firmware upgrade then that is all good, you have most excellent hearing,

It is more of a situation where the system (amplifier and speakers) now prefer the Chord DAC to the Naim DAC.   There is also the Hugo TT which sounded very good in a shop demo and home audition may be on the agenda.  It is devestating as there was hope that the Naim DAC could vanquish the other Chord DACs after the point of firmware upgrading.

So it is with a heavy heart that Naim DAC is now permanently removed , to be dispatched for the scheme to reclaim recyclable materials, for use in manufacturing water purification equipment for the developing world. 

R.I.P Naim DAC, and at the going down of the sun... we will remember them.

Disposable hero posted:

There is very little change detectable following this firmware upgrade for my system.  Initially it sounds like the soundstage has expanded however it becomes a case of maybe yes, maybe no over extended listening.  I'm not experiencing the substantial leaps in performance that others have described.  Is this all source dependant?

Furthermore there is the Chord 2Qute DAC which still sounds much more preferable.  It has a bolder, more full-bodied sound with an overall more complete representation of the recorded music.  Bass is firmer with a punchy delivery and a large 'depth of field' so the sound propels outwards of the speakers to immerse you in the music.  This is without it becoming 'too hi-fi' as well, as it still has great musical rhythmic drive and zesty quality.

By switching back to Naim DAC (older or newer firmware), the soundscape just gets sucked back in to the speakers and the music sounds more lossy and compressed.

The reality check is that a firmware ugrade isn't a hardware upgrade.  The determining factor must be the DAC processor used by Chord - their own version created by the DAC boffin compared to the Texas Instruments version used in Naim DAC, which is fairly common across many other brands.  So the hardware technology has evolved that much since Naim DAC was first launched.  Still if you are now hearing better things from the firmware upgrade then that is all good, you have most excellent hearing,

It is more of a situation where the system (amplifier and speakers) now prefer the Chord DAC to the Naim DAC.   There is also the Hugo TT which sounded very good in a shop demo and home audition may be on the agenda.  It is devestating as there was hope that the Naim DAC could vanquish the other Chord DACs after the point of firmware upgrading.

So it is with a heavy heart that Naim DAC is now permanently removed , to be dispatched for the scheme to reclaim recyclable materials, for use in manufacturing water purification equipment for the developing world. 

R.I.P Naim DAC, and at the going down of the sun... we will remember them.

Well, that's unequivocal DH - Thanks.

G

DH, you can make this decision within only a day of listening?

Wow! I was very doubtful that a software update could do much - rather assuming a degree of confirmation bias in others' reports and also of the general view that diminishing returns at even the Ndac/XPS > xs2 level are so great that differences are more in the mind than the ears. 

But it's not a subtle difference. I'd agree it's largely in the space and "hifi" qualities of the presentation, without losing the usual naim characteristics. That rather fits in with the direction of travel over the last decade, deliberately or not. 

The good news for me is it sounds like the upgrade to Hugo TT would now (almost) definitely be a question of taste rather than clear improvement. I'll still audition  a DAVE when they arrive but am much less sure I'll feel the need to pay. 

The bad news is that it's also making me rethink my disbelief in interconnects... Given I'm using a Maplin £10 cable between server and dac that might get expensive before even considering dac>amp...

Ok, got it working.

system specs  nDAC with XPS2 DR with a couple of Valhalla power cords off a Weiss INT202 Connected via Nordost white lightning coax.

10 seconds of Estate from Naims high def " meet me in london " was enough to convince me that its sharper, clearer, more focused.  On to Kaki Kings guitar and its more guitar like.  The slight soft or fuzz has been replaced by sharper focus.  Need to listen more but its clearly more immediate.

I've taken the plunge on a S/H NDAC to try at the W/E...Let my ears decide!

G

Graeme, looking forward to your reports!

Pepe Deluxe Queens wave - like a 3 D movie lots of layers front to back

Beth Orton Comfort of Strangers bonus disc - the bottle cap shaker thing is more subtle but more delicate and bottle cappy.

i have to say its a little less forgiving on some recordings.  Like anything with system balance there is a bit of give and take.  If you want more reality its what you are honna get, warts and all.

if you can't hear a difference then its your setup thats not revealing.... Which deoending on your taste may be a good or abad thing. 

To be honest, i'm not sure about the quantum of detail vs system musicality.  I though it was a little flat before.  Its not flat now but at this late hour i find myself turning the volume down, not up.  Mind you, i am very tired right now its past 11pm.

PS jumping around tracks i am finding lower volume works well.  Its not slightly dull down there like it was before. I'll call it for now and say its a more interesting listen.

Jan-Erik Nordoen posted:

Originally Posted by Timbo:

Just done it, seemed pretty straightforward and it's nice I could use the front USB socket. Happened really quickly, rebooted and am now playing Tidal.

 

How are you getting Tidal into the DAC ?

Hi Jan Erik

I use a Bluesound Node 2 which is connected to the DAC and that does my Tidal.

Tim

Hi Briz, I've been awaiting your take on this with interest!

you're right about the ability to listen comfortably at a lower volume without losing musical information.  A parallel aspect to me is the naturalness and clear diction in vocals and acoustic instruments, and the ability to distinctly resolve parts within complex music.  I found this very evident in Hayden and Hendrix yesterday. What came through to me was the overall cohesiveness, communication and musical information - a 'high integrity' presentation that repeatedly drew exclamations.

Earlier on I found (LF-1290 from Jaycar) ferrites on my DC1 very helpful in taming a digital edge or hardness. I must revisit this for curiosity - I suspect some systems will be shifted out of former balance with the new firmware, however two -ves don't always make a +ve especially when one element changes.

Do you run your DAC 'floating' or 'grounded'?  I know you have your Hynes/Weiss but DAC seems very sensitive to its input, cabling etc...  a real noise rat-hole!

Upgrade went well once I found a USB stick that worked. Definitely a difference in sound and, to my ears, for the better (with n-DAC). Actually think it is tonally better than Hugo, but that's my cloth ears and so purely subjective