Firmware update 4.11.8 for Naim DAC - so what about sound quality?

+1 Patu

My other American dac can outperform even NDS/555PS on things like texture etc but what is unique with NDS is the Naim sonic signature.

It would not be appropriate to assess the Naim DAC on these hifi attributes. One should listen to the Naim DAC for what it offers in spades, the Naim sound.

Yes, Zeny's point is very important. To have a noticeable upgrade (I won't be using DSD, so just in terms of my SQ perception alone) delivered for free is a real boost to brand loyalty. It also makes the original investment in Naim equipment over cheaper alternatives easier to explain to interested others...

The W may not be able to hear the difference (just mine, not saying that's the case for all!), but the AF is greatly improved by being able to explain 'part of the £££ is that they give stuff like this away for free making a 5 year old box feel like a new one and delaying the need to replace with one of those [much lower aesthetic WAF] other ones...'

Further extra loyalty points from here too!

Disposable hero posted:

joerand posted:

Disposable hero posted:

So it is with a heavy heart that Naim DAC is now permanently removed , to be dispatched for the scheme to reclaim recyclable materials, for use in manufacturing water purification equipment for the developing world. 

WTF???

Is this a cryptic way of saying we should look for your nDAC in the classifieds?

With further anguish and despair, more listening comparisons between Chord 2 Qute and Naim DAC keep reinforcing the case in favour of the Chord 2 Qute.

I do now hear the increased high fidelity quantities in the Naim DAC, some extra details coming through and bigger soundstage.  However it isn't the momentous transformation that others have experienced.  I don't agree with the notion that my system doesn't have enough resolution capacity, or that my ears are broken.  From my listening there is no spectacular leap upwards in performance to the same level or beyond that of the Chord DAC. 

There is another problem in that with the Naim DAC in place, at a fixed volume level there is what I'd describe as a 'digital haze' tainting the sound, a harshness which is bearable for 5-6 minutes but then becomes distracting and fatiguing.  

For the same music and at the same volume level, the Chord 2 Qute doesn't generate this harsh background haze and is more natural and has a cleaner/ organic output of upper, mid and lower sound qualities.  Intriguing that such 'minimalist' technology will work out better than a Naim DAC with all its large-scale analogue and power stages.  Perhaps there is something in the idea of less is more.  I'd still say that the Chord DAC chip is better than the Texas Instruments jobby and will have some significant influence.  I no longer feel the need to swap and experiment with different DACs.  There are other well rated DACs from AURALiC as other Naim people are now talking about. But for me there is no more interest in tinkering, just to leave it alone and Chord 2 Qute will remain in place. 

The idea for dispatching the Naim DAC for a special recycling scheme, to be made in to water filtration equipment is some redress for what has become a pursuit of excess and indulgence.  I'm starting to question this whole  audiophile and hi-fi pursuit, us as the consumers and gatherers of numerous 'boxes' by a sole individual, typically for use by one person only.  The concept consuming more natural resources for adding another power supply, for something that already has a power supply.  Separate pre- and power amp units, when an integrated does a similar job. Plus more cables, more consumables more electricity...yet another plug in the wall [someone can make a song out of that].   For sure it is being done for the love of music, however there is some need for balance between free-choice, and responsibility for the state of the planet.  If you're from the 'separates generation'  (maybe over 40 year old) then perhaps none of this will chime with you and won't really matter, as that is the way it is.

We're already murdering the planet enough, so rather than this Naim DAC getting in to the eager sweaty hands of another audiophile, it would be better if it can serve a greater humanitarian purpose for water pumping and sanitation equipment in the developing world.  I hope that its humanitarian mission will provide some compensation for our consumerist hobbies. You can look up organisations which do support tackling water scarcity as we aren't allowed post up links.  There is work to develop better solar powered facilities.  I've never been to these places but others have described that you may start to re-evaluate the way we live and take for granted the stuff we devour.

Instead of Naim looking to the past (separates concept)  I'd rather that they look forward to more detailed research and development in compact/ united systems - UnitiQute 3 perhaps?  The Uniti range was unsuitable for me as it has a very harsh sound which was causing ear pains during demo listening.  The Nait XS amp is more even and neutral.   So a UnitiQute 3  with much better DAC and amplification stage output would be preferable and a smarter step in to the future.

I would say you like the Chord 2Qute sound  - nothing wrong with that. I own a Hugo and I like it and can sort of see where you are coming from. I own a Unitiqute  and a DAC-V1  (among others) and I like them a lot! The DAC-V1 (and  presumably the subject dac, the n-DAC)  is very different from the Hugo (and presumably the 2Qute) , so it does not surprise to see some gravitate to one or the other! I have found space for both DACs hooked up to a PC - classical music (Hugo) with the rest (DAC-V1, updated!). Its all good!

Edit - I believe NAIM might be focusing more on the streamers and we may not see any new stand alone DACs (hope I am wrong)

Brilliant, how would you describe the updated DAC V1 compared to the non-updated DAC V1 ?

Disposable Hero,

It is good that you are pleased with your system.  Also commendable that you are disposing of your nDAC in a responsible way.

Please tell us what is your digital source into your dac's, and on what kind of shelf do they sit?

Charlie

analogmusic posted:

Brilliant, how would you describe the updated DAC V1 compared to the non-updated DAC V1 ?

Its been a while (I was a beta tester) - but I would say it is crisper, more detail and sparkle up top, voices and percussion more vivid and still managing to sound very musical and never fatiguing! It grabs your attention even more, and yet remains very inviting after hours of listening! To tell you the truth it has been playing almost all the time since beta v1.15! 

Some interesting views here. I'm having my nDac's firmware upgraded on Sunday so am looking forward to hearing for myself whether I can tell a difference.  To date, I've heard nothing better than my nDAC/555PS combo fed by CDX2/XP5XS so for me the bar is already high and if Naim can raise it still further with a free upgrade I'll be very pleased indeed.

Mike 

Lots of views but you have to try it for yourself and be realistic in your expectations.

The naim DAC is used in vastly different systems and is fed in many different ways.  When i had a $5k system 10 years ago i thought it was a pretty revealing setup until i heard a well thought out $20k system. My speakers are worth more than that now, all in the search for a more revealing sound that was also appealing, i.e. Not just thin and no bass ( which was my problematic $5k system, and yes it was poorly implimented with system bottleknecks and a poor room)

I know that if i remove my Paul Hynes SR7 and went back to the old audirvana my sound would be relatively dull and flat. Running my mac on battery would be duller again. Take out the Weiss INT202 and go optical- ditto.  Take away the Sort Cones, switch to floating ground and stuff up the cable dressing so its taut- oh dear.

An nDAC with 555 is now a $17k investment in Australia so with complimentary gear thats well setup the differences will be far from subtle.

I did the upgrade 2 days ago, and it was a breeze to do from the original "WAV only" firmware.

I'm enjoying the nDAC for nearly 5 years now, and never bothered following the firmware updates, since I'm not using the USB playback feature much. So when I read that the new update was not only improving features but sound quality too, I took the plunge.

So far, I'm amazed by the improvements. I was a little afraid at first that the improvement "deal" would withdraw a sonic character (that I like) to bring a new one. That was underestimating the solid base the nDAC stands on. So It's a far more optimised nDAC that was revealed to me after the reboot.

Yes, it's now doing things differently but the sonic signature is still intact. Instead of being seated in the first rows at the show, you feel like you're now sitting sagely a few rows back to enjoy a better view of what's happening on the stage. 

The really different thing is that a good deal of the "digital noise" in the upper part of the spectrum seems to be gone. So the execution appears to be less mechanical, and it removes a fair amount of hardness. It's especially noticeable on recordings of average quality... which means about half or more of my actual music collection personnally.

I'll stop right here to not oversell it, so fellow nDAC owners could discover the benefits of that early Xmas gift by themselves. 

A big thank you to Naim and the beta testers community for such an awesome update!

Bye.

Still getting used to mine but one thing for sure - this has to be the easiest upgrade process of them all - beats burning optical discs for the HDX hands down! Again - many thanks Naim.

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...-dac-strikes-a-chord

Thoughts on SQ above.

G

I haven't heard a Hugo so I can't compare and it didn't feel appropriate to post in the other thread.

To my ears, this f/w update is quite impressive. It reminds me of going from the olive sound to the (then new) black sound.

Like Stoik, I was initially worried this might be a sonic change in the wrong direction. But this is definitely not the case.

Thank you to Naim and all the testers, great job.

Arun

Had my nDAC’s firmware updated this morning. My dealer popped round, transferred the necessary files to a USB stick that I knew worked on the nDAC, the stick went into the front USB port and the nDAC sorted itself out in a matter of seconds. In fact the update seemed to install itself so quickly and smoothly that I think we were not too sure it had worked. So my dealer checked the version of the firmware on the nDAC using the binary check code and sure enough the new version was there. An excellent start.

We then sat down and listened to a few songs well-known to us both from Seal, We Are The Fallen and Hugh Laurie. An improvement was immediately obvious. I first noticed an improvement in the resolution of lead vocals. Then it became apparent a clearer rhythm was coming from the multilayered stuff. The front to back soundstage had expanded and the presentation felt ‘airier’. The decay on Hugh Laurie’s piano was excellent. More subtle improvements included a bit better control on the bass heavy material.

So another happy customer here. This is one hell of an upgrade for free!

Thanks very much, Naim.

Mike

Good to hear gentlemen.

G

Well more listening through the afternoon and into this evening have re-enforced initial impressions.  Soundstage improvements are very noticeable, and female vocals are resolved quite exquisitely.  I'm almost convinced that Nerina Pallot is here in my lounge as I type this.  Naim has truly refreshed the nDAC.

Mike

MDS posted:

We then sat down and listened to a few songs well-known to us both from Seal, We Are The Fallen and Hugh Laurie. An improvement was immediately obvious.

It hadn't come back on?

After a couple of days with the updated DACV1 I can for sure hear much better treble, tracks that I struggled to listen to loudly due to harshness, glassy trebles are suddenly easy to listen to at the same levels, I also can hear much better definition in the music overall, even at loud volumes when in the past things used to get "muddy", things are much improved now.

An example of a track that I struggled to listen to loudly is the "Sometimes I feel so deserted" by The Chemical Brother... On my system I used to listen to it with the preamp set to the 8-9 o'clock positon and it was hard to listen to the upper tones.... Now that is gone.

Well done Naim, seriously, what I confidence booster in my decisions to pour my hard earned $$$ into the Naim gear...

(following also posted in another nDAC thread)

I've had the update in for a day and a bit now.

Certainly sounding different. Tonally it's nicely fleshed out and L/R separation is better but it's not as Naim-ey in presentation; it's sweeter. Good thing/bad thing? Dunno! Either way it's a classier sounding DAC and thanks to Naim for the update.

Another thumbs up for the update. The lads at AudioT Brighton did mine in about a minute. It was so quick and painless that I almost wish I'd foregone the obligatory parking ticket.

How does it sound...very nice thanks. Vocals seem to have taken on more character. Bass is cleaner and clearer, imaging is wider and the top end is even more beautifully etched.

Played a Boz Scaggs track and heard some background stuff, deep in the mix, that I'd never noticed before.

I can't give you a direct Hugo comparison but I had one on loan a while ago. Personally I preferred a 'bare' NDac for its shear drive and pace in comparison to the Hugo. When I added a 555ps to the NDac it just went into orbit. I wouldn't be surprised if the firmware update gives a bare NDac the same sort of kick a 555ps gives it. It definitely removes a layer of digital haze that you almost didn't know was there... that is until you hear the update.

And all for free - well except for a £2 parking ticket

I've updated my Naim dac and the sq has tremendously increased, but the q-sound effects on Roger Waters' Amused to Death have completely disappeared. What can be the cause of this and what is the remedy?

Whats is a q-sound effect?

Q-sound is a surround sound effect used by Waters. He tries to create a surround effect with a two-channel system. Fortunately, I have already found out what was wrong with my system. My grandson had been messing with my speaker connections and as a result of this my system was out of phase.

Naimbuff posted:

Q-sound is a surround sound effect used by Waters. He tries to create a surround effect with a two-channel system. Fortunately, I have already found out what was wrong with my system. My grandson had been messing with my speaker connections and as a result of this my system was out of phase.

Ouch!...could have been very nasty.

G

Jesus, grandson hot wiring speakers I guess he didn't turn the amps off first as Graham mentioned it could have nasty.

Finally managed to get the new firmware up and running - took me a while to find a USB disk that worked and I thought I'd better update to 4.10.6 first as my DAC was one of the first and i've had previous problems skipping intermediate updates

Anyway as pretty much everyone else has reported ... this really is a tremendous upgrade - Well done Naim!