NAC 202 or 282 as Upgrade from NaitXS2?

The 202 is a great pre BUT the 282 is a paradigm shift.  Don't audition unless you're willing to commit!   

I had a 202/Hicap with a 200 and they are a fine match. But when I upgraded I realised how superioir the 282 is. Although I used the 282 with the 200 for a while, the 282 really needs a 250 (preferably 250DR) to shine.

Going for secondhand deals can allow you to leapfrog (say the 202 and go straight to the 282) and in the long run you will save money if your aim is the 282. However you will then hanker after a 250DR and so it goes on.

Try and hear some demos of these pre and power amp combos. It will help you think through where you want to aim and what steps you might take to get there.

Thinking used 282 is a fine idea, assuming the basic design hasn't changed (been improved) much in the past couple of years?

As for a 250DR, it's next on the agenda, but for another system: that's where the 200 will be coming from! 

Thanks for the reply.

The 282 is a big step up from the 202 in both performance and cost.  Furthermore, to get your money's worth from it, you must be prepared to use a good equipment stand, such as Fraim, and address cable dressing carefully.  Many people are very happy with the 202, HC, 200 system, which is a good step up from your NaitXS (which is very satisfying in its own right).  So to answer your question, think about your long term commitment in effort and investment.

Charlie

Yes, I see from your profile that you have a 272 and I assume this is where the 250DR will be bound for. If you plan on sticking with the 200 in the other system, then a 202 would suffice IMHO. A 282 is a little wasted on a 200. Also a 282 benefits from a HicapDR (indeed a SupercapDR if you ask me - others on here might disagree) and to go to these lenghts to get the best from the 282 but stick with a 200 to partner it does not make sense IMHO.

I'd go for a 282 if you can afford it. Think about how you're going to power it, too. If you change your 200 for a new 200DR, you may decide that it's improved internal preamp power supply is good enough to forgo a Hicap or whatever, thus saving the need for an extra box and shelf. 

Having two systems, one with a 282/200 and the other with a 272/250DR seems a bit weird to me. Maybe they are in different places? Maybe maxing out one would be a better approach?

Hungryhalibut posted:

Having two systems, one with a 282/200 and the other with a 272/250DR seems a bit weird to me. Maybe they are in different places? Maybe maxing out one would be a better approach?

Good point - so which one would be the 'second system.' 

HH & Chrissu, it's the speakers that make the difference.  The Silverbacks are very large floorstanders, very efficient, and a quite easy & stable 8 ohm load, whereas the Dynaudio C1s are stand mounted, much less efficient and a more difficult 4 ohm load, so for both dynamics and grip I think they will benefit more from the 250DR.

Eventually I'd love to upgrade both to 250DR, but it's a matter of the ready, or should I say the not-so-ready.

I'd like to think the 202/200 combo would be a big enough step up from the integrated Nait to keep me happy for quite a few years, but still am not sure.  Thanks for your input.

We're all experts at spending other people's money, and of course the 282 is a lot better than a 202 - it's more than double the price: but a 202/200 is still a very nice amp, and a big step up from a NaitXS. I don't think you'd be disappointed with it.  

I think Naim tend to match pre and power amps: 202/200; 282/250; 252/300. It's clearly not as simple as that of course - a brief forum search comparing 282 vs 252 will keep you entertained for hours. Myself, I'm at 252 pre and wondering if I should stick at 250 power, or aim for 300.

Point is, I think you should maybe think: 282 - plus which power amp?

In my experience, the 282 rocks. But if you can get a good value 252, a whole new world opens up. Others here will disagree, some vehemently.

As a long term lurker and first time poster I'd be mighty confused by now!

I think the best advice now is to talk to your dealer and listen to as many pre/power combos as possible within your price range bearing in mind how much you want to prioritise each of your two systems. Are they both equally important or is one system definitely the main system? Do you really need two systems or might you consider maxing out one of them? Also are your current spekers (both pairs) a fixed feast or might you consider a speaker change to more a accommodating pair (than say the Dynaudios).

If it were me I think it would be about prioritising which system is the more important regarding serious listening and indeed if two systems are vital before launching into demos.

Unless you have some odd use case, I would personally never spend the money that a 282 costs anymore, the 272 has streaming as as good an analog section. The additional benefits of getting a 172xs or 272 over a 202 or 282 is huge in terms of versatility, access to high quality new music and ease of control (i.e. using your smartphone as remote etc). If you are doing the typical 2 source  CD & Phono or even with additional complexity they would match almost all use cases. I would not be surprised if  a 372/572 comes out to provide 252 type performance with streaming/upnp as it is where the industry is going.

Tallin, Naim is very addictive, I think it is wise to figure out where you see your self ten years from now and aim at that pre amp. All the advice from the forum is good, but only you know where you will be content. The following quote is one that I took to heart when I entered the Naim game,  perhaps it can be useful to you as well!

"I've had 282 with HC and SC, 252 and 552. Clearly, 552 is the best - there is just a certain "rightness" to it that it is instantly recognizable.

 If I had to do it all over, I would have gone straight to a 282 with supercap and stayed with it until a secondhand 552 became available.

 A 282 with supercap won't resolve absolutely everything from the recording, but it will be close enough that you never care, IMO.""

Lots of interesting perspectives above, and I appreciate all the input.

As I just turned 65 a few days ago the answer to "where do I hope to be in 10 years?" is "still vertical."  Sorry - couldn't resist!

The gist seems to be to go for a 282 if at all possible, and don't discount buying used.  I think this is good advice.  I'll definitely give weight to my dealer's opinion, as well; we've been doing business for quite a few years: I trust his ears, and he knows mine.

I don't consider the decision as taken, far from it, so if there are fresh perspectives yet to be expressed please don't hesitate.

I once compared the Nait XS to my 202/200 and the 202 has significantly more resolution than the Nait XS (although the Nait XS is a lovely amp). What the 202/200 mainly brings over the Nait  XS is more bass (the Nait XS has been sometimes unfairly accused of lacking bass).

Overall separating the preamp in it's own quiet room without a PSU brings more clarity and resolution.

But you should aim for a 282, that is where Naim's hi-end sound begins.

Both the 282 and the 252 can be a end-game preamp for many years. The 282 has much more flexibility in that you can use one hi-cap,  2 hicaps or a Supercap.

The 282 has a much bigger soundstage than the 202, which can sound congested when compared to a 282. it has much control over the music, which gives is more emotion and meaning. The 282 is also more 3 dimensional.

I have heard the very best and top level of another competitor (made in Scotland) systems, and the 282 really is able to play music at that level without missing anything much, that is how good it is.

If I knew what I knew today I would have skipped the 202 and bought a 282/200.

The 282/200 is a great fun combo of an amp, and one that one can easily live with for many years. The 200 is easily able to show the superiority of the 282 over the 200.

One of the biggest "what the hell have you done there" moments for me was when I was listening to a 202 to 282 upgrade (I had 200/202 at the time) and the dealer added in the SC in to the 282.  It truly is where the high end begins - in my view a massive jump.

However 30 minutes later we swapped in the 252 and of course for me it was another step up.

That was where I ended up - and now I have added a 300 and it all seems relaxed, working within itself.  The 300 was the icing on the cake.

So my advice is jump directly to a 252 if you can - but the 282 option with a SC is not at all bad either.

nickpeacock posted:

Point is, I think you should maybe think: 282 - plus which power amp?

In my experience, the 282 rocks. But if you can get a good value 252, a whole new world opens up. Others here will disagree, some vehemently.

I agree with this, the 252 has a certain rightness that I didn't get with the other pre's... but I did enjoy the Nait XS, 202/HiCapDR and 282/HiCapDR .. and the 282/HiCapDR is very enjoyable indeed  but perhaps there are certain colourations and traits that sometimes get in the way... but I could have ignored this..

I also say the better the pre, the more versatile it appears to be working with a wide range of amps.. but at the other end I found the 202 with the 250.2 not a happy marriage.. yet I am told a 552 can work well with a 155xs

However you will hear a multitude of opinions .. and the thing to note I suggest is that there are no absolutes despite what some might say.. even quite vehemently. Even a 552 won't necessarily be right in all systems.. 

So the secret is to audition and where you can home demo... Try not to make snap judgements.. Try and decide over a week.. Many components can superficially sound different in tonal balance.. But it's the ability to communicate your music with you that is the key differentiation... IE you notice details like rhythms, emotion in a voices, style of drumming, the lead in an orchestra etc that you hadn't noticed before..

Simon

what I have heard going up the range upto 552 is a lowering of the noise floor, allowing more music to emerge, and correspondingly an increase in soundstage,  spaciousness, and control (after all Naim calls these preamps - NAC - Naim Audio Control). More control over the music allows more emotion and meaning to come through.

Unlike Simon I don't really hear the coloration of the 282 next to 552 when I compared both side by side into NAP 500, but I do hear that 552 resolves a lot more detail

Both when set up properly (and this requires even more care in the case of 552) play music in the same way, can't really hear much difference in this aspect from UQ all the way to 552/500.

As they pretty much share the same circuit more or less, they are all cut from the same musical cloth. And to have the Naim badge on it, any Naim amp is above all, musical.

Tallan posted:

HH & Chrissu, it's the speakers that make the difference.  The Silverbacks are very large floorstanders, very efficient, and a quite easy & stable 8 ohm load, whereas the Dynaudio C1s are stand mounted, much less efficient and a more difficult 4 ohm load, so for both dynamics and grip I think they will benefit more from the 250DR.

Eventually I'd love to upgrade both to 250DR, but it's a matter of the ready, or should I say the not-so-ready.

I'd like to think the 202/200 combo would be a big enough step up from the integrated Nait to keep me happy for quite a few years, but still am not sure.  Thanks for your input.

As a secondary setup I'd choose olive or CB stuff, the 282 is silly money in my world

Something like 72/135's or 250 would run any of your speakers especially the 135 on C1 but I'd take the Silverbacks anyday and replace those dyn's 

Tallan posted:

Lots of interesting perspectives above, and I appreciate all the input.

As I just turned 65 a few days ago the answer to "where do I hope to be in 10 years?" is "still vertical."  Sorry - couldn't resist!

The gist seems to be to go for a 282 if at all possible, and don't discount buying used.  I think this is good advice.  I'll definitely give weight to my dealer's opinion, as well; we've been doing business for quite a few years: I trust his ears, and he knows mine.

I don't consider the decision as taken, far from it, so if there are fresh perspectives yet to be expressed please don't hesitate.

It is worth remembering that all Naim amps, whether integrated or pre / power, are capable of delivering a very enjoyable sound, if partnered with the right source and suitable speakers. I dare say system matching or balancing your system front to end is likely to be more important than moving higher up the chain. Yes, moving up in source and amplification will result in more resolution, more control, drive, power, etc. but this does not necessarily mean that you will enjoy listening to music more. Sometimes the opposite may well be the case. There is a lot of enjoyment to be found in a simple system. There is a reason why most here who have listened to a Qute are full of praise for that little amp. Or take the good old Nait 2 as another example. Ultimately it is about enjoying your music and if you need a 20K system to do so, then there is something fundamentally wrong with your priorities. Let's be honest, for many their hifi system is, in one way or another, also a status symbol, something to massage our egos and feel good about. Nothing wrong with that but it begs the question whether it really is necessary and what hole in your life you are trying to plug by spending obscene amounts of money on musical replay. That money might be better spent on getting out of the house more, going to concerts in places you have not seen before or hear musicians playing live you haven't heard live before. Or support some meaningful charity instead. Don't get me wrong, I am as guilty as the next one here on this forum. Just saying. Whatever system you decide on, do yourself a favour and stop reading the forum from that point onwards. Simply enjoy the system you decided on for years to come, rather than thinking about the next upgrade two months later. 

Good luck!

And btw. that Nait XS of yours is a cracking little amp! 

totemphile posted:

And btw. that Nait XS of yours is a cracking little amp! 

You've got that right!  It could be with the addition of the NAP 200 which is a done deal I could be well suited for months or years.  As ever I'll let my ears be my guide.

You don't say which kinds of music you prefer, which would influence the choice....

Michael_B. posted:

You don't say which kinds of music you prefer, which would influence the choice....

Good point.  I enjoy almost everything except rap and hip hop; the mix is probably 20% jazz, 20% classical, 10% ambient & electronic and the rest a mix of traditional (mostly female vocalists like Patty Griffin, Sharon Von Etten, and Thea Gilmore) and rock.