NAC 202 or 282 as Upgrade from NaitXS2?

totemphile posted:

It is worth remembering that all Naim amps, whether integrated or pre / power, are capable of delivering a very enjoyable sound, if partnered with the right source and suitable speakers. I dare say system matching or balancing your system front to end is likely to be more important than moving higher up the chain. Yes, moving up in source and amplification will result in more resolution, more control, drive, power, etc. but this does not necessarily mean that you will enjoy listening to music more. Sometimes the opposite may well be the case. There is a lot of enjoyment to be found in a simple system. 

Totally agree with this..

Tallan posted:

Michael_B. posted:

You don't say which kinds of music you prefer, which would influence the choice....

Good point.  I enjoy almost everything except rap and hip hop; the mix is probably 20% jazz, 20% classical, 10% ambient & electronic and the rest a mix of traditional (mostly female vocalists like Patty Griffin, Sharon Von Etten, and Thea Gilmore) and rock.

Then you are likely to find the 282 a very rewarding step up. It's only big weakness is on piano and classical piano in particular.

A s/h Nac 52 or 72 will not be weak on any piano

totemphile posted:

It is worth remembering that all Naim amps, whether integrated or pre / power, are capable of delivering a very enjoyable sound, if partnered with the right source and suitable speakers.

So, if I may hijack the thread for a moment, assuming I have a CDS3/XPS-DR at one end and SBLs at the other, with a SN/HC-DR in the middle, should I want to go pre&power again what would be, in the general opinion, the best choice for medium-level listening of mainly classical, acoustic jazz and some good quality songwriting in a well furnished room of discrete dimensions, mildly favouring the bottom half of the audio range? I only buy 2nd hand lately.

Thanks
M

I like what CHARLIEP said about your future commitment and plans. It makes pefect sense to consider if you will go that far in exploiting the system's potential.

In my case, I am severely constraint in terms of space so it limits what I can do currently.

Massimo, my choice would be a 282 and 250DR. If you wanted to make the move soon, it may be too early for an ex dem 250DR, so a 200 would be my number two, unless you prefer the sound of the 250.2. 

Nigel,

I've heard the 250.2 a number of times, but never in my own listening space. I know that you don't especially like it, while you're obviously fond of the latest version, but the 250.2 seems ok to me, just a little 'fat' perhaps in some cases, but never dull. On the 282 I have mixed impressions: some find it also not fast and clear enough, but my friend Roberto, who has one, says his SL2s are perfectly happy and the sound is as detailed, assertive and lucid as one could desire.

In general, I am much more for a luminous and fast sound than for a 'warm' one, so my doubt is just that the 202/200 (which I have had, and loved) could be ok sound wise but not so great an upgrade over the SN/HC-DR, while the 282/250.2 could turn out being somehow too full for my room and taste.

A 282/200 could be a solution. Some seem to think highly of this combo.

Thanks for your suggestion

Max

both 202/200 and 282/200 are very fine pre-powers. Although I love 202/200, the 282/200 is a better combo (as it should be for the extra money).

I could easily live with 282/200/HCDR and never upgrade.

Massimo Bertola posted:

Nigel,

I've heard the 250.2 a number of times, but never in my own listening space. I know that you don't especially like it, while you're obviously fond of the latest version, but the 250.2 seems ok to me, just a little 'fat' perhaps in some cases, but never dull. On the 282 I have mixed impressions: some find it also not fast and clear enough, but my friend Roberto, who has one, says his SL2s are perfectly happy and the sound is as detailed, assertive and lucid as one could desire.

In general, I am much more for a luminous and fast sound than for a 'warm' one, so my doubt is just that the 202/200 (which I have had, and loved) could be ok sound wise but not so great an upgrade over the SN/HC-DR, while the 282/250.2 could turn out being somehow too full for my room and taste.

A 282/200 could be a solution. Some seem to think highly of this combo.

Thanks for your suggestion

Max

Alternatively, just get a Supernait 2. 

One thing I like about Nigel, and reading his posts, is that he never disses whatever bit of gear he has ever owned or come across - and it's been a lot. He  always finds something good to say about them even though a replacement is just around the corner. I'm waiting in anticipation to see which one is going to be upgraded or replaced next, the 272 or 250DR. Oh, let us not forget the SL2s. Surely , not?! 

Tony2011 posted:

He  always finds something good to say about them even though a replacement is just aund the corner ... Oh, let us not forget the SL2s. Surely , not?! 

Spendor A5s in tobacco-leaf brown?

He  always finds something good to say about them 

Always is an understatement, I believe day in day out is more the truth, don't think I ever seen such a need for justification of ownership

Deep into the venezuela jungle there might be someone somewhere which not is in the know, poor souls

Surely it's better to be positive, and help and support others, than merely slagging off other members. 

I see no need whatsoever for having a go at me, Tony2011 and B_Lund. I've never said anything negative about either of you, so there is no need to have a pop at me. Perhaps if you cannot say anything nice, you should simply say nothing. 

If, Tony, you actually read my posts, you would realise that I have owned several items of equipment that I have really not liked: the 252, the 250.2, Neat Motive 1, Spendor A5. 

I owned the PMC 23 and think they are great speakers. I only have SL2s because I saw a pair available and think they are better than the 23s. I never planned to buy them. 

And now I'm clogging up the thread defending my posts against others whose only motivation seems to be being nasty. There is enough nastiness in the world without bringing it here. 

If you don't like my views, that's fine. I think the equipment I have now is excellent, so why the hell shouldn't I tell others? 

There are lots of people on here who I have advised and helped over the years. Let's see some help from you two, if you can manage it. 

Nigel,

I was not having a go at you. I actually think you're a top bloke from reading your posts. You do change stuff more often than Rod Stewart changes missus though. That's all. 

Peace. 

Tony

Hi Tony, OK, but B_Lund certainly was. The negativity is becoming tedious.

I agree, I've had too much equipment. It's ridiculous. I'm hoping I'll have the current stuff for years: it's the best affordable (to me) setup I've ever had. Perhaps I should write that in Spanish for the Venezualans. 

LOL. Did not know you were a polyglot?  I do know a little Spanish if you decided to post in that particular language from now on. You can also try French, German or a little Portuguese. I know the forum has members from far afield as Japan but never heard of any Venezuelans here. Must have missed it somehow! 

I'm not so good at Spanish, it's just that B_Lund thinks it's important that people in the Venezuelan jungle are informed, and as Spanish is the most widely spoken language I feel a translation might be required. Luckily I have a friend who is fluent in Spanish. If B_Lund thinks it necessary I will endeavour to oblige. 

Last year his post was  allways full of SU and PMC

This year we all know

Someone should say enough is enough and get a life

It has zero to do with having a go - thats something entirely different

But who are you to judge what having a life is?

Point to a positive post you have made. Who have you helped? When do you ever say anything other than 'get olive' or words to that effect? 

Nigel,

why do you think a SN2 would be a worthwhile upgrade on the SN? AFAIK, the main difference is that the SN2 has DR and omits the DAC: well, I have a HCDR for my SN's preamp and I sort of need the DAC.

Have you compared the two? I did, when the SN2 was released, in a friend's store, and although I had to admit the SN2 was more refined, more 3D, smoother without any apparent loss of detail (all of which can be considered a plus or a minus depending on personal taste regarding Naim gear), I didn't find the 2 so much better than the classic. I think that the SN2 is thought as a first buy for those who once would have bought the SN, not as an upgrade from a SN.

Max 

Hungryhalibut posted:

Massimo Bertola posted:

Nigel,

I've heard the 250.2 a number of times, but never in my own listening space. I know that you don't especially like it, while you're obviously fond of the latest version, but the 250.2 seems ok to me, just a little 'fat' perhaps in some cases, but never dull. On the 282 I have mixed impressions: some find it also not fast and clear enough, but my friend Roberto, who has one, says his SL2s are perfectly happy and the sound is as detailed, assertive and lucid as one could desire.

In general, I am much more for a luminous and fast sound than for a 'warm' one, so my doubt is just that the 202/200 (which I have had, and loved) could be ok sound wise but not so great an upgrade over the SN/HC-DR, while the 282/250.2 could turn out being somehow too full for my room and taste.

A 282/200 could be a solution. Some seem to think highly of this combo.

Thanks for your suggestion

Max

Alternatively, just get a Supernait 2. 

Massimo,

I'll second Nigel's suggestion. The SN2 is the closest you can get to the sound of separates in Naim and may well be all you need in the listening situation you described.

If you want something that is fast and luminous, the Sonneteer Alabaster is a gorgeous integrated amp. No remote control, however, but well worth rearranging one's setup so that the amp is at hand. The personality of the Alabaster is midway between Naim and Sugden.

Jan

That's fine then, it's your opinion that counts. My underlying and perhaps only implied question is whether you really want to go for separate pre and power again. I never thought much of the SN1 and in my view SBLs deserve better. 

b_lund posted:

A s/h Nac 52 or 72 will not be weak on any piano

Agreed.

Jan,

thanks, it's the same opinion from two respectable members, so I'll keep it in mind. I'll have a listen at the SN2 again - my friend retailer has it - or I will ask it for a home demo. I still wonder what it has that is so much better than a SN to justify the move instead of pre&power, but I'll consider it seriously. BTW, my friend Roberto has had it as a replacement amp while waiting for his 282/250.2, and I believe he has a clear idea of it.

Best

M

(BTW - it's true that Nigel has changed a lot - but still less than I have - and that he tends to suggest what he has, but he is very helpful, and surely has a knowledge of Naim gear that somehow seems to transcend his personal experience, and that is seldom contradicted by facts..)

Hungryhalibut posted:

My underlying and perhaps only implied question is whether you really want to go for separate pre and power again. I never thought much of the SN1 and in my view SBLs deserve better. 

Actually, I already have separates in a way, because my SN is HiCapped so I use two Snaics, and have two boxes. I too think that SBLs deserve better, and that is the reason for my sneaking into the thread. I now understand your last suggestion better.