Sorry, this is a beginner's query: I've just started with the free subscription to Tidal: whilst I'm impressed that, so far, I could find the albums I wanted to play, I've just bought a CD (Schmieds Puls) after listening to it on Tidal. Is this silly? I'm just not used to finding music on a streaming service all the time, and I do want to be able to play it on my iPod and other devices that cannot stream. I guess I'm looking for a naim streaming guide (now that we've got the connection guide, - thanks, naim!). Something like this:
(1) Differences and commonalities between Spotify and Tidal (both in technical terms, where Spotify needs a dedicated app, and Tidal is integrated in the naim app, and in terms of database, subscription costs, playlists, etc.)
(2) Sustainability / Longevity: OK, I guess I can do playlists of my favourite music, but what happens when e.g. Tidal gets bancrupt? This would feel like someone burnt my vinyl collection, right? Yeah, I can presumably transfer to another streaming service and rebuild my playlist from memory, but it's not the same as having my vinyl or CD collection, and not the same as having my music server library with all my ripped CDs just handy.
(3) ...and my iPod? I can't stream on my iPod, thus how can I cross-over from Tidal to iPod? Is buying (or downloading) the CD the only option? I'd pay twice, right: for Tidal and then for the CD or download?!
(4) Can I record from Tidal? I've not tried this, but I should be able to digitise Tidal music whilst playing, say with a Sony digital recorder. It's kind of silly since I'd re-digitise from the analog signal, but it would work. Or can I also directly record from my streamer's digital output, or is it somehow tagged to disable this? In any case, it would be somewhat tedious since I'd have to add track names etc. Maybe a non-starter then. Streaming is simply not meant for downloading, right?
Somehow these considerations make me quite happy about my purchase of that Schmieds Pulse CD: Can't wait to rip it, and have it for good, in the car, on my iPod, all very simple! Maybe I'll even cancel my Spotify subscription? Or go horses for courses?
Cheers,
Stefan
Posted on: 04 December 2015 by ChrisSU
(3) ...and my iPod? I can't stream on my iPod, thus how can I cross-over from Tidal to iPod? Is buying (or downloading) the CD the only option? I'd pay twice, right: for Tidal and then for the CD or download?!
My Sony Walkman will play music from its internal memory, over WiFi from my Unitiserve, and from Tidal and other web streaming services. The Tidal app is synced across all devices I use it on, including the Naim app. Best of all, sound quality is streets ahead of an iPod. (It wasn't cheap, though.)
I still but CDs too. I'm not intending to keep Tidal after the trial ends, it's not worth it just for music discovery.
Posted on: 05 December 2015 by ChrisH
Couple of slimline answers to your questions Stefan.
1) Essentially they are the same, except that you can get CD quality with Tidal. The UI is different and some prefer the curated playlists you get with Spotify. Personally I much prefer Tidal, especially with the way it is integrated into the Naim app. Much nicer to use.
2) Thats my issue with streaming services too. If I never buy another CD relying solely on streaming services, one day if my personal circumstances change and I can no longer afford the subscription, all of those personal collections and playlists that have been put together over the years will disappear overnight. I use these services first and foremost for listening to new music to identify if I should buy the physical media/hi res download. I must say though that since having been subscribed to Spotify and now having switched to Tidal my CD purchases have dropped dramatically.
3) The bonus of Spotify and Tidal is that you can also download the music to your local device for offline listening. Ive had some albums on my iPod Touch / iPhone for months, so there seems to be no limit.....as long as you keep paying the subscription! This is great when you are on a road trip because you can download a bunch of playlists or albums to your iDevice (along with Radio paradise and BBC iPlayer caching to your iDevice) and you will have hours and hours worth of new music to listen to, all available through your car stereo by plugging your iPod in.
I find this feature of the 'brave new world' absolutely fantastic.
As for recording, you probably dont need to (and I guess you shouldnt!) if you can listen offline (or online when at home on the network through your hi fi) to make your mind up if you want to purchase the album or not!
Hope this is of interest Stefan.
Posted on: 05 December 2015 by Simon-in-Suffolk
Hi Stefan, my view is that streaming is great and with Tidal and with the new firmware that Naim are developing it should sound even better. It is also a good user experience integrated to the Naim app.
Is it a replacement for domestic local streaming or CD? I say no. As good as Tidal is now sounding.. The streamer servers are huge industrial affairs.. The data often spits out in inconsistent bursts.. inevitably when our Naim is rebuilding this data to extract the media it produces low level electrical noise.. this becomes noticeable such as loss of fine detail, loss of stereo picture, or sometimes a little bit of grit or edge to the sound.
local streaming is a more consistent send-send-wait-send-wait-send-wait-send affair with data.. The streamer works less hard to recover the media and to my ears as a result sounds superior.. There is also the FLAC vs WAV issue with Tidal streaming FLAC.
Additionally another reason why web streaming services won't replace local streaming and/or CD is that media titles change..it can be the rights to stream a title are rescinded by the publisher... This is annoying.. You can save a title on your Tidal favourites, only to later find it becomes faded out and unplayable. In the last 3 months I have had one track and one album have this happen.
Finally with CD there is ultimately more choice.. I'd say about 10% of my music simply is not available on Tidal, Spotify etc..
So for the true music lover it's a case of CD/ local streaming as well as web streaming services... it's unlikely one size will ever fit all.
Simon
Posted on: 05 December 2015 by dave marshall
I've only had Tidal running for a month or so, and have found quite a few gaps in the music available.
I had assumed that library would expand over time to include missing albums, mainly back catalogue items, in addition to the new music being posted on a daily basis.
Am I being unrealistically optimistic?
Posted on: 05 December 2015 by Mike-B
Am I being unrealistically optimistic?
........ errr I think that might be the case Dave
If you like jazz, classical or even the classic rock stuff, Tidal is not for you (at the moment)
What do I mean by "classical rock" go look for Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon, a classic if there ever was one. The one & only Tidal copy looks like an iTunes special with other tracks from other PF albums added at the end, & the DSOTM section does not play gapless correctly, & its not CD quality.
Posted on: 05 December 2015 by Stefan Vogt
Thanks so much to everybody - I guess we can declare this thread now to be the semi-authentic naim guide to domestic/local and remote (service-based) streaming varieties!
I'm relieved that my tendency for posessing CDs is not as old-fashioned as I thought, despite the interesting off-line mode of Tidal - thanks Chrish! (as you implied, these downloads seem to live within the Tidal app and would vanish without subscription or without Tidal's existence, unlike my option 4 ...).
Cheers,
Stefan
Posted on: 05 December 2015 by Solid Air
It seems that most people - including me - are using Tidal as an additional service rather than replacing their owned collection (whether that be vinyl, CD or digital storage). I find it very good for listening to new music, the odd song where I don't want the whole album or reminding myself of music I've heard in the past. But if I know I want to listen to an album again and again, I'll still buy it. I would hate my music collection to disappear if Tidal does, or if I choose to cancel my subscription.
If at some point I feel Tidal is 100% reliable and stable as a business, and that the monthly price is likely to come down rather than go up, I might switch to all-streamed. It's a maturing market, but I think there's a still a way to go.
Posted on: 05 December 2015 by ChrisH
No worries Stefan.
By the way, the offline mode is also available with Spotify, just for info.
I think maybe for the younger generation who haven't grown up owning their own music, continuing not to own any physical media and streaming exclusively using the streaming services model will not present any drawbacks for them.
I think for the rest of us that have grown up with vinyl and CDs and owning our own, the future will be a hybrid of physical and streaming services, there is space and a need for both for us.
That's my take on it at the moment anyway!
