'New' Naim DAC Strikes a Chord

analogmusic posted:

kudos to Naim for updating the DAC V1 and NDAC. DAC V1 sounds like another machine.

BUT 

Listening to my Hugo with headphones while typing this and I have to agree with Simon, it is still as good as ever and sounds engaging, fun to me and does the Naim PRAT thing too... My Hugo isn't going anywhere, Graeme you are making a huge mistake selling it. 

Oh no I'm not...Oh yes you are...well, it is the season.

Very happy with my decision analoguemusic. Oh yes I am.

G

No problems here with bad recordings on an optimised XPS2 DR implementation. I would insert an image but you still can't just upload a picture here.

A critical thing here is what people expect from a system and what they like.  Yes, you do find that the 80s drum sound is crappy, but that is 80s drum sounds for you.  All the subtley of a jackhammer.  If the mix lacked resolution or balance then that is what you get.  That being said, its more a case of less better. Its still better than it was. Other previously opaque 80s music suddenly has new nuance, even if only in the parts where the engineer didn't process the sound to death.

i have tried my 80 year old Robert Johnson recordings, Brian Jonestown Massacre, and other simply poorly recorded music.  All are better for the upgrade.

Upgraded my nDAC on Sunday and have listened to it every evening since. It continues to impress. It is powered by a 555PS with Powerlines on the 555PS and nDAC, plus SL interconnect so my nDAC is pretty much maxed-out. Regardless of whether the recording is top notch or poor, I'm hearing an improvement.  I loved what my nDAC did before so am now a very happy bunny.  

Mike

Steve J posted:

I shall be reviewing the DAC situation for my system in the new year and, along with the Chord DAVE and HugoTT, I'll now include the NDAC/PS. The result will depend on the relative SQ of all the performers. If there is a clear winner then that's what I'll go for but if the results are close then I'll go for the best bang for the buck. 

I'll be looking forward to your report Steve, as I know you have a very good non-digital point of reference there!

My experience with the NDAC & old firmware has been very similar as what Simon (in Suffolk) has described in these pages. That very special "organic" quality with the XPS. Without XPS it did not impress so much in musical terms, but was still very good Hi-Fi.

John Willmott posted:

DynFan160 posted:

How many of you have auditioned the Schiit Yggdrasil?

DynaFan:  I have one in the rack at the moment on its 15 day free trial .. I am very impressed .. methinks it may not be going back to California ..

Cool. What NAIM products can you compare to? V1? nDAC? What are you using for amplification? I guess you have to use the single-ended RCA outputs of the Yiggy to connect to what I assume to be a NAIM pre-? 

It's too bad that most if not all NAIM pres cannot accept balanced XLR inputs. This does make them sort of antiquated. 

Does anyone else wish NAIM made a DAC like the following?

The DAC I want NAIM to build would be...

-Size/Footprint of the V1

-Remove the pre-amp/volume control of the V1

-Keep the DIN output of the V1

-Add the external PS input of the nDAC.

-Sprinkle in a few technical upgrades for 2015/2016

-Still cost no more than the V1

(Essentially a cheaper nDAC with the footprint of the V1 and USB input.) 

DynFan160 posted:

Does anyone else wish NAIM made a DAC like the following?

The DAC I want NAIM to build would be...

-Size/Footprint of the V1

-Remove the pre-amp/volume control of the V1

-Keep the DIN output of the V1

-Add the external PS input of the nDAC.

-Sprinkle in a few technical upgrades for 2015/2016

-Still cost no more than the V1

(Essentially a cheaper nDAC with the footprint of the V1 and USB input.) 

All of the above + include a killer headphone output (vs the sterile anemic one included on their integrated amps)

Iconoclast posted:

John Willmott posted:

DynFan160 posted:

How many of you have auditioned the Schiit Yggdrasil?

DynaFan:  I have one in the rack at the moment on its 15 day free trial .. I am very impressed .. methinks it may not be going back to California ..

With all the brands/models floating around out there it would be nice to hear comments on DACs other than Naim and Chord.

I was using a Naim CD555 alongside a Chord EX DAC.  I then demmed a Hugo TT at the same time as an Auralic Vega DAC.  End result is the Vega stayed and everything else including the 555 got sold.  The Vega is a very good DAC at a not unreasonable price (c£2500).  Well worth an audition whatever price point being looked at.

Thanks. I'll put the Auralic on my list for a demo, if I can find a dealer.

DynFan160 posted:

John Willmott posted:

DynFan160 posted:

How many of you have auditioned the Schiit Yggdrasil?

DynaFan:  I have one in the rack at the moment on its 15 day free trial .. I am very impressed .. methinks it may not be going back to California ..

Cool. What NAIM products can you compare to? V1? nDAC? What are you using for amplification? I guess you have to use the single-ended RCA outputs of the Yiggy to connect to what I assume to be a NAIM pre-? 

It's too bad that most if not all NAIM pres cannot accept balanced XLR inputs. This does make them sort of antiquated. 

Dyna: .. The YGGY is sitting between an NDX and a NAC282, DC1 from the NDX and, yes, RCA TQB interconnects to the 282.

I've never owned an nDac so can't comment, but I have owned a V1and found it very enjoyable.  I envy people who have the ability to compare their existing kit with past memories of kit they once owned, sometimes to quite an astonishing degree.  It's not a skill I possess .. I can tell you that I particularly like the YGGY for its crispness and clarity whilst at the same time not appearing to alter the character of the NAIM sound.  Others DACs I've tried appear very dry or alter the  character of the sound too much .. To my ears of course.

Colin Lorenson originally posted:

"The Vega is a very good DAC at a not unreasonable price (c£2500).  Well worth an audition whatever price point being looked at".

Steve,

I would concur with the suggestion by Colin. I had the opportunity to listen to the Auralic Vega DAC (along with the Auralic Aries streamer, also at a not unreasonable price (circa £1,300)) when I auditioned my current amplifiers, and I was very impressed.

Whether or not you will prefer it to either your Chord Hugo or the newly 'upgraded' nDAC is another matter, but it is certainly well worth a listen in my view. I am comfortable with my Klimax Renew in my main system, and the ND5XS with Hugo in my AV system, but had I been in the market for a streaming solution at the time, then the Aries/Vega would have been pretty near the top of my list. Incidentally, although probably not of interest to you, the streamer offers connectivity to Qobuz and Tidal and has pretty extensive DSD capability.

For advice consideration.

NDX/NDAC(updated)/XPSDR/SN2/HCDR vs NDX/NDAC(updated)/282/250.2

Cheers

M

I would take the 282/250.2 rig

DynFan160 posted:

It's too bad that most if not all NAIM pres cannot accept balanced XLR inputs. This does make them sort of antiquated. 

What a strange thing to say..  Naim concentrate in thier star grounding for optimum sound quality using unbalanced signals. With that why would you need balanced inputs which really are designed to eliminate earth loops where you are not using star earthing or needing to do long signal lead runs in an electrically noisy environment... but at the expense of islightly ncreased distortion.

To me a short balanced low level signal lead for domestic hifi is nothing more than faddish.. I think Naim focus more on SQ and less on fads... hence their obsession with star earthing and DINs for example.

Simon

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

DynFan160 posted:

It's too bad that most if not all NAIM pres cannot accept balanced XLR inputs. This does make them sort of antiquated. 

What a strange thing to say..  Naim concentrate in thier star grounding for optimum sound quality using unbalanced signals. With that why would you need balanced inputs which really are designed to eliminate earth loops where you are not using star earthing or needing to do long signal lead runs in an electrically noisy environment... but at the expense of islightly ncreased distortion.

To me a short balanced low level signal lead for domestic hifi is nothing more than faddish.. I think Naim focus more on SQ and less on fads... hence their obsession with star earthing and DINs for example.

Simon

 

+1

And a proven circuit that's been in Naim amps for over 40 years

I get the distinct impression, that quite a few people on this forum, just still don't get what Naim is all about.

HINT : Music, first and foremost. Second, the ability to reproduce music in a way that sounds "as live"

And here was me thinking Naim were all about selling their gear

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

DynFan160 posted:

It's too bad that most if not all NAIM pres cannot accept balanced XLR inputs. This does make them sort of antiquated. 

What a strange thing to say..  Naim concentrate in thier star grounding for optimum sound quality using unbalanced signals. With that why would you need balanced inputs which really are designed to eliminate earth loops where you are not using star earthing or needing to do long signal lead runs in an electrically noisy environment... but at the expense of islightly ncreased distortion.

To me a short balanced low level signal lead for domestic hifi is nothing more than faddish.. I think Naim focus more on SQ and less on fads... hence their obsession with star earthing and DINs for example.

Simon

 

+1

But Statement Pre, S1 was designed with balanced XLR input. Any thoughts on this? 

 I mean why would Naim suddenly venture into full balance connections when their DINs are working effectively.

For those who buy chord Hugo

and XLR for those who will buy the XLR equipped Chord TT and Dave

Just kidding - it is just to cater to the complaints of those who might have said "this amp costs 140,000 GBP and I cannot connect my source"

Soon hopefully even they will come to realize that DIN is best musically.

Why do you think your 282 has RCA connections? It was partly to let people try both and hear for themselves. 

Once I tried RCA-DIN from Chord Hugo into 282, it was so much better musically that I have now deactivated the RCA inputs,and will never use them again on my 282.

I did the f/w upgrade over the weekend. I was so impressed with the improvement to the sound quality I came on here to see if anyone else had had the same experience as me. It looks like most have.

It's saved me spending another few grand on a hardware upgrade. Well for now anyway.

joerand posted:

And here was me thinking Naim were all about selling their gear

Walt Disney once said:

"We don't make pictures so we can make money, we make money so we can make pictures."

I don't know if Naim go that far, but it would not surprise me.  They clearly are in this business for more than just the money IMHO.  Please note that this nDAC upgrade was provided at no charge.

Charlie

I wonder if it's something about Salisbury?

I once persuaded another company in the city to provide free software updates.  It's very simple:  It costs little to the company, but it gives confidence to prospective purchasers that they're going to get real, professional support.  And in Naim's case they really deliver on that promise.

CharlieP posted:

Please note that this nDAC upgrade was provided at no charge.

It is also interesting that it was announced as a feature upgrade to play DSD files, with no mention of sound quality improvements (even to the beta testers). 

Jan-Erik Nordoen posted:

CharlieP posted:

Please note that this nDAC upgrade was provided at no charge.

It is also interesting that it was announced as a feature upgrade to play DSD files, with no mention of sound quality improvements (even to the beta testers). 

Yep. What a lovely surprise. One of my previous bosses used to say 'under-promise and over deliver'. DSD or no DSD, this firmware upgrade delivers a very significant lift in performance.  And it's free! Perhaps it's Naim's Xmas present to us nDAC owners 

Mike

Jan-Erik Nordoen posted:

CharlieP posted:

Please note that this nDAC upgrade was provided at no charge.

It is also interesting that it was announced as a feature upgrade to play DSD files, with no mention of sound quality improvements (even to the beta testers). 

The beta testers were very aware of the improvements - but discretion is part of the role. If we'd blabbed, our free Mu-So for Christmas would be gone - oops. Just joking by the way - we do it for love.