Recommended Network Setup

Posted by: Mike-B on 08 December 2015

Back in the summer a friend asked for advise selecting & setting up a network player,  something simple was the main requirement.  I demo'd my system to show him & wife what NAS, streaming & iRadio is all about.  They have decided to go with Cyrus & has asked that I give him a hand to wire & get him going with CD ripping.  I asked why Cyrus & amongst things like small & neat he was impressed with the network set up advise that Cyrus have on their www.  
I just had a look & shock horror - ONE page (screen) with one simple diagram & words
Router, Switch, NAS, Player & all with ethernet cables
 -  simple & straight forward "get you going" advise.  
(I was impressed that they go straight for a switch & avoid the option of using the router as a switch  -  but that's re-igniting one of my flames)  . 
't'would be nice if Naim had a simple system set up page(s) like this.
Posted on: 08 December 2015 by dsc

There's also a mine of information on network set-up on the Glasgow company's website, with recommendations for Entry Level, Budget and High End system set-ups. Look under the heading Networking in Support -> The Knowledge.

Posted on: 08 December 2015 by ChrisSU

Sounds like a job for Huge 

Posted on: 08 December 2015 by Mike-B
Hi DSC,  yes I've seen that as well.  It is a very good publication, my only criticism is you need to go digging to find it.
The Cyrus web site is very user friendly & the recommended network page is along with each of the streamer models.....  
-  Home > Support >Manuals and PDF's > Streaming Music Players >Streamer Model ….... network .pdf
& it also has a very nice FAQ section 
 
  ..........   ChrisSU
 
Posted on: 08 December 2015 by Foot tapper

When setting out to dip a toe in the water of this streaming lark, I sketched out a diagram with:
   - our Virgin Media broadband router (in modem only mode)
   - an Apple time capsule (for wifi & mac back ups)
   - the macs
   - the Naim DAC-V1
   - Netgear GS108T gigabit switch
   - an HP network printer
   - Lots of Cat6 ethernet patch cables

I took this into our local apple store to ask one of their genii if it could work.  I thought that they would be delighted at the prospect of selling me some apple kit e.g. the time capsule etc.
All 3 genii present went white with shock, shrugged and said that they didn't know.

By way of contrast, Guido Fawkes, Simon-in-Suffolk and Mike-B were absolutely tremendous and very generous with their advice on this very forum, explaining most of the basics to an absolute beginner.

Thanks chaps, it's been 3-4 years of thoroughly enjoyable, reliable music (apart from 1 dead NAS drive + many Tidal drop-outs).

It would be excellent if Naim were able to offer some of this basic networking advice, though I'm not sure how well it would pay back as a business case (tip: it was this forum that gave me the essential knowledge to be confident of buying the DAC-V1).

Best regards, FT

Posted on: 08 December 2015 by Solid Air

I agree - I think it would be good to have a simple guideline. The forum should not have to hand out this advice. 

I think Naim don't do it for two reasons: 1) because they sell a product - Unitiserve - that they want to be the solution, and yet relatively few Naim owners buy it, so they're stuck with an out-of-date product they haven't killed but can't avoid, and 2) they're nervous about recommending an approach and then being stuck with customer service calls on networking issues.

 

Posted on: 08 December 2015 by garyi

Thing is networks can be dead simple or very complicated. By home standards my network is complex, yours might be nothing more than the dreaded BT home hub.

Offering advice across all that is difficult, all that can really be done is probably what cyrus have, nothing more than a recommendation. That would not doubt cause just as much confusion as what it aims to solve really. As you can have some/all/1 part of the suggestion and it all still work, or not work.

 

Posted on: 08 December 2015 by Mike-B
I agree Garyi,  but some people do need good basic simple advise & sorry to say that some advise out there is over-complex or just plan bad advise.
The thing I like about the Cyrus recommendation page is that it only shows & talks about one basic network schematic to get you started.  It's intended for those who know little or nothing & need that level of advise.  If you are already have a home network,  you probably don't need to know.
It appears to me to be deliberately simple & without saying as much it avoids items that contain a risk of not working,  & without any techno-babble that turns so many people off.
Follow the recommendations to the letter & it will work. 
Posted on: 08 December 2015 by Jan-Erik Nordoen
ChrisSU posted:

Sounds like a job for Huge 

Job already hugely done:

Audio Networking and RFI Simplified

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...ly=41551095772846693

Posted on: 08 December 2015 by ChrisSU
Jan-Erik Nordoen posted:
ChrisSU posted:

Sounds like a job for Huge 

Job already hugely done:

Audio Networking and RFI Simplified

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...ly=41551095772846693

Indeed, that was what I was getting at - although maybe a more concise version would be easier to digest for people who are setting up for the first time.

Posted on: 08 December 2015 by Adam Zielinski

The thing is - streaming is simple when you only run streamer
When steaming 'box' count gets slightly out of hand (2 x NDX, SuperUntiti and UnitiQute)  like in my case a network solution is needed (managed by UnitiServe)
I actually had to decipher everything myself and this forum was a much better help than any manual I've ever ready

Posted on: 08 December 2015 by Simon-in-Suffolk

I agree, a ' suggested introductory' network setup would be great, and perhaps with a list of proven routers and switches and settings. It doesn't have to be comprehensive and can be suggested without warranty etc.. But would be a start for those that need it..

Some ISPs like BT suggest third part routers with specific settings that have been proven to work with thier service by users, and with BT this comes from their user community forum without specific support and warranty from BT, so I'm sure Naim could do something similar...

BTW Foot Tapper thanks for the feedback, it's great I was able to help you enjoy your music and system in some small way.

Simon

Posted on: 08 December 2015 by Mike-B
Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

BTW Foot Tapper thanks for the feedback, it's great I was able to help you enjoy your music and system in some small way.

..........  ditto from me Foot Tapper ........ sorry but I hadn't seen your note so I'm a bit late with this post.
Helping when & where you can is what forums are all about - isn't it ???,  its the same for me on other non-hifi forums that I lurk around.  
I had a lot of help from this forum when I first started albeit I had a few years of amps, CDP's & TT's behind me.  I got a pile of help when I started thinking about network streaming & following the high dive into the deep end.   As an ex technical service & training guy I learn fast & now as a retiree I tend to have the free time to spend time studying the subject.  To me its my payback time, but its also a pleasure.   
Posted on: 09 December 2015 by Huge
ChrisSU posted:
Jan-Erik Nordoen posted:
ChrisSU posted:

Sounds like a job for Huge 

Job already hugely done:

Audio Networking and RFI Simplified

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...ly=41551095772846693

Indeed, that was what I was getting at - although maybe a more concise version would be easier to digest for people who are setting up for the first time.

I think you may be right, it may be time for a simplification, and a bit more step by step hand-holding.

Posted on: 09 December 2015 by Mike-B
Huge posted:

I think you may be right, it may be time for a simplification, and a bit more step by step hand-holding.

Not taking anything away from your excellent booklet Huge,  but I agree something needs to be done for the basic minimal "get you started" network.  I was kinda hoping that Naim might see the need & step up to the plate.  I don't think it needs to anything much more than that as once a newbee is up & running, further curiosity is easily satisfied by surfing places like this forum & reading up on the subject.  If they are not curious, nothing lost, the newbee is up & running on a rock solid network.

I started this post because of my friends negative reaction to his investigation into network streaming (& he is no dumbo by any means) ;  he was put off after a visit to an multi-brand audio store & a well known national electronics store,  the collective techno-babble from these geeks all trying to impress with their "expert" knowledge served to change his curiosity into terror.  He is all OK now but it was almost a "no deal" thanks to the techno-babble.  All it took to turn it around was him seeing the Cyrus www picture diagram.

Posted on: 09 December 2015 by Huge
Mike-B posted:

Not taking anything away from your excellent booklet Huge,  but I agree something needs to be done for the basic minimal "get you started" network.  I was kinda hoping that Naim might see the need & step up to the plate.
...

Agree, for the first time user, I over complicated it last time.  So this is exactly where I was thinking of going with this.  A standalone very simple guide, then leading on the the more advanced version if needed.

I don't think Naim are likely to do this as it's generally not their practice to make recommendations about equipment from external suppliers (but then again I also would like to see them do it).