Hicap or PSU for 2QUTE

I'd dump the mains conditioner, or preferably just use for the laptop.  They have a weird effect on analogue electronics in my experience, though shouty would not be a term I'd associate with them.  It's an easy test though, drop it in favour of a good quality, but basic 4 way, or direct to the wall socket if possible, and see if anything improves.  It might.  

Of course speaker, interconnect, even USB cables can also tame, or improve the overall sound.  Not all well regarded cables suit all electronics, so depending on how much experimenting you've done in this area, there could be some merit in swapping cables.

If none of that helps, or is perhaps not of interest, I'd be inclined to point the finger at the speakers in your system.  The 2qute and its siblings are nearly always described as sounding more analogue than any of the digital competition, and closest thing to an LP12 usually, so unless the original SN is particularly un-analogue, which seems unlikely, I doubt your electronics themselves are at fault.  

SongStream posted:

I'd dump the mains conditioner...  

I'd be inclined to point the finger at the speakers in your system...  

agreed. i have a Supernait 1 and doubt that any "shoutiness" is originating there. 

i'd recommend downgrading your speakers, preferably to floorstanders with soft-dome tweeters -- and spend what's left over on a Hicap. (pretty much any moderately-priced Naim or Rega floorstanders would be good choices here. i use the Devore Fidelity Gibbon 8, which -naturally- i think is a great match with Naim electronics -- but they're hard to find, depending on where you live.)

Thanks for responses. I agree that I doubt the electronics are the issue. I bought the 2qute based on the reviews praising it's analogue nature. It has had a positive affect but I still want to get closer to that analogue sound and the top end is where I feel it misses the mark. I have tried a few cables and they do sound different. I am using Chord cobra as that gave me the best balance. I'd not really thought about the conditioner but will see if I can switch that out and see what happens. Do you think adding a hicap at this stage would just give me more of everything including the current top end problem? If so I guess I will need to consider the speaker route. Trouble is I've only had them two years and we're a gift from my wife for a significant birthday! I'll need to watch how I play that discussion :-?

Hey Douglass. My experience with the 2Qute was that i found it could sound a little shouty with some recordings. I initially thought that this may have been my speakers but having now changed to a Hugo, that shouty-ness has disappeared.

For me, the Hugo gives a more relaxed, polite presentation. I would say that it sounds more analogue as well. I do sometimes miss the slightly more exciting/forward presentation of the 2Qute compared to Hugo but for overall system balance, the Hugo fits in better for me. 

So based on what you describe, I would recommend a Hugo audition. Or you could always pick one up second hand to try and sell it on for little/no loss. 

In my opinion the first place to investigate to cure this with your system is to look at the interaction of the room and the speakers.  You could have uneven reflection characteristics at mid to high frequencies that don't work well with the speakers.

The second place to look is matching your speakers to your own hearing characteristics - some people have a non-linear response to increased volume at specific high frequencies.  As the volume increases then, for some people, the perceived overall 'tone' of the sound changes more than it does for others.  Is the 'shoutiness' also still present at low listening volumes?

The Supernait 1 has a very high input sensitivity and combined with the 2Qute's v high 3v output is likely to be overloading the amp and causing some harshness. For this reason alone 2Qute was out of scope when I had a SN1. The hugo suggestion from Mayor is good in this respect also as hugo is far more accommodating with its ability to reduce output to an optimal level and other forum users have reported this has a significant positive impact on sound quality. I'd also agree with trying without the mains conditioner. These aren't recommended for naim equipment although loss of dynamics is more associated with these than shoutiness.  

It may be worth looking at a used nDac, which is much improved by its new firmware according to reports. 

Mike-B posted:

The 2Qute sounded 100% OK on my SN(1) when I tried it.

Also keep in mind most modern Naim amps - 552, 252, 282, 202 have the same input sensitivity,   so if 2Qute is bad for a SN, then its bad for a lot of other Naim amps.

All these listed amps have Input Senistivity of  75mV & an overload margin of 40dB

If I'm not mistaken that gives an overload point of 7.5V.  The output of the Chord DACs is 3V, so well within the overload limit of the Naim preamps.

That fits as the p-p of 7.5V RMS sinewave is 21.2V and Naim preamps use a +24V rail.

Huge / Mike B - Fair enough, I don't have the technical knowledge - just that for real world I don't like high output sources with naim amps and not helped by listening to many modern ( read high level / brickwalled / compressed) recordings which really limits the volume control range. Even with my NDX (~2v output) this is the case so I didn't entertain the idea of a 2Qute. Interestingly Naim have lowered input sensitivity on more recent amps (SN2 / 272).  

hi, lots to consider. I'll start with checking the mains conditioner and speaker positioning.

Mayor West - I plumped for the 2qute over Hugo as the Qute sounded as though it was as good for less based on reviews. Also, I would primarily be using the USB connection which would seem to be better on the Qute. So whilst the Hugo still seems to come out on top on this forum I feel it may be more of a sideways step than a real change in the balance of sound. But I am interested in your comments, what connection were you using?

As regards the NDAC, I will keep tabs on reviews following the firmware updates but tbh it's more than I want to spend at the moment.

I keep coming back to the speakers though as where I may need to look to get the right balance.  Interestingly Naim outlets seem to be pushing Focal speakers now as a good match but I am not sure about the synergy in my set up. I guess room acoustics all play a part too so I will need to get some home dems if I can.

cheers

Just another observation. The "conditioner" as such is a Monster Power H R S 1000 home theatre power centre. I got it because I currently need eight sockets and the rig is not close enough to the available wall sockets without an extended.  This HTC also provides surge protection. Connected to it is Yamaha rxa1020, Naim Supernait, pioneer bdp450 bluray, sky box, Audiolab cd8200, chord 2qute, mj acoustics sub, Panasonic tv. It seems a lot on the face of it. Anyone using one of these or similar?

Cheers

Douglass posted:

Mayor West - I plumped for the 2qute over Hugo as the Qute sounded as though it was as good for less based on reviews. Also, I would primarily be using the USB connection which would seem to be better on the Qute. So whilst the Hugo still seems to come out on top on this forum I feel it may be more of a sideways step than a real change in the balance of sound. But I am interested in your comments, what connection were you using?

Douglass, I did the same when I auditioned the 2Qute and didn't even bother listening to the Hugo (based on the reviews and the sales pitches). I then took the 2Qute home and it completely blew my socks off (compared to my previous DAC-V1). I know you state that it is a sideways step... I loved the sound of the 2Qute but struggled with that slight shouty-ness with some recordings. So trying the Hugo meant that I still had that 2Qute sound, but without the shouty-ness. So although technically you could say it is a sideways step, I'm now sat feeling very content whereas before I wasn't

My connections are... Macbook Air/Audirvana > Chord USB Silver Plus > Hugo > Chord Chorus Reference RCA-DIN > SN2. Although it has been suggested that USB doesn't sound as good on the Hugo, I feel it matches the 2Qute performance via USB.

I think the forum suggests that some people prefer the Hugo presentation and others are perfectly happy with their 2Qute. The differences between the two are marginal for me, but enough to make the switch in my set up.

Mayor West, were you using the 2Qute with it's wall-wart power supply? If so, I wonder if a 'better' power supply might have swung it for the 2Qute. I'm using a Qute EX and the power supply I'm now using with it made quite a substantial improvement over the wall wart.

Allan Probin posted:

Mayor West, were you using the 2Qute with it's wall-wart power supply? If so, I wonder if a 'better' power supply might have swung it for the 2Qute. I'm using a Qute EX and the power supply I'm now using with it made quite a substantial improvement over the wall wart.

Hi Allan. Yes I only used it with the wall-wart supply. I have read that 'better' supplies make a big improvement on the Qute EX, as you describe. I noted however that a couple of gents on the forum had tried better supplies with the 2Qute but still ended up preferring the Hugo, so I thought I would try the Hugo first before exploring other avenues. It just so happened that the Hugo seemed to fit the bill perfectly, so I decided quit whilst ahead before I clumsily unbalance things again!

..........but the Hugo is a pain to use for home purposes.  My demo unit was out of my system long before my home audition ended. The sight of it dishevelled under the weight of my interconnects etc bugged me no end. 

When the OP says shouty i think high frequency distortion/ harshness. I also wonder if you live in an art gallery  ( do the clapping flutter test) and i think of the rotting "lamp-wire" I once used as speaker cable.

The other thing that comes to mind is the monster power conditioner.  A friend had a Thor PS10 on his system.  When he qas grumbling about sound quality i recommended dumping it in favour of a simple well made hifi power strip. This was dismissed of course, until he finally tried removing it.  It never went back in.  I think these power supplies can work but you have to spend serious Chord like money or its a bottleneck.

i would be interested to know what is sounding shouty.  Which songs or albums?

Hi Douglas,

3 months ago, I explored selling my Supernait1/HicapDR and txps/nDAC to get the 272/250DR. During that adventure, one fellow naimee wanted to do a 1-1 swap, his 3 month old 2qute for my 4 year old nDAC. He wanted to change to the nDAC for several reasons. The output of the 2qute was too high, leaving him with very little volume knob range for him. He also wanted to get the full naim sound, and not having to use an RCA-DIN interconnect.

The other thing that happened is that I didn't end up with a 272/250DR. I traded in my SN1 for an SN2.

I should point out that I liked my SN1/HicapDR alot. Without the HicapDR, the SN1 isn't as good as it can be.. Compared to the SN2, the SN2 beats the SN1 in the areas of noise floor, tighter bass and imaging. It opens the window to the source much wider than the SN1. And with the latest nDAC FW update, it's been really great!

If I were you, I would DITCH those complicated power distributors and just get a nice and simple power strip. Then pick up a HicapDR for your SN1. The 2qute is supposed to be decent. What I would do is get a custom  made 6db attenuated RCA to DIN cables from flashback cables (pretty cheap too, google it).

This should be significant upgrade for you.

I'm at work now but will send an update later, some really useful posts here, I'll also try to be clear about what i mean by shouty! Just quickly though any names in mind for good mains blocks?

The wireworld matrix powerstrip is what I use. Simple and not costly. Always use the supplied powercords from naim if possible. And if you can afford the powerline, use them.

If you play it loud and it is shouty. That's just what it means, shouty. If you get it right, it should just get louder when you turn up the volume, not shouty.

I can think of some ways to make my system shouty.

• Use a non compatible powercord (a shielded aftermarket power cord sounded horrible)
• Naca5 speaker cable isn't the most sweet at the top (but still a good match)
• A power conditioner powerstrip (thinned out sound and slower...)
• Speakers that are balanced towards treble. (the SN1 is never bright, consider your balance)
• Room with lots of hard surfaces, or room that echos (cause bass boom and messed up top end)

Good luck!

Douglass posted:

Just another observation. The "conditioner" as such is a Monster Power H R S 1000 home theatre power centre. I got it because I currently need eight sockets and the rig is not close enough to the available wall sockets without an extended.  This HTC also provides surge protection. Connected to it is Yamaha rxa1020, Naim Supernait, pioneer bdp450 bluray, sky box, Audiolab cd8200, chord 2qute, mj acoustics sub, Panasonic tv. It seems a lot on the face of it. Anyone using one of these or similar?

Cheers

Yes I'm using this HTC as well, although I only use it for the AV stuff , and put hifi into unswitched wall sockets.

In your case get a separate simple unswitched block for the hifi and keep the Monster for everything else.

If possible take out the monster from the mains when listening proper.

cheers

As per the thread title, I would also add that a power supply for the 2Qute makes an appreciable difference. I bought the 2Qute plus MCRU power supply from another forum member earlier this summer and only recently tried it without the power supply. It didn't take too long for it to be put back into service! With or without I never found it "shouty" but more analogue with ps connected. There is also an earth lead from ps to qute which grounds the dac with a further subtle improvement.

Tobyjug, excuse my ignorance but I assume unswitched means the block doesn't have an on off switch and the same at wall plate?

Andrew, that's good to know too. I was considering the Teddy psu but will check out MCRU to. I know they have a good return policy.

By shouty I mean at high volumes the treble seems to grate at times. It's not noticeablecat lower volumes. But I am not getting a nice smooth progression as volume increases. I don't get the open natural tone to vocals and instruments I am after. That's probably true at lower volumes but less obvious when the sound seems to harden up. I have the SN at about nine o'clock on the dial in terms of how loud. Room is about 18 x 26 feet. Wooden floor but lots of furniture, heavy curtains down the length of one side, several rugs dotted around. The more I write about it, the more I think I need to play with set up. Room acoustics etc before any further purchases.

Cheers

At most times when there's a problem with shouty hardness as volume increases is from the treble tweeter unit of a loudspeaker , these can present a tougher load to an amplifier , sometimes dipping down to 2 ohm at some high frequencies - and with an amplifier that struggles to control the oomph - hardness and distortion sets in.                                Looking at the Focals and the SN1 this should not be the problem here.                                                                                      Cables can be a source of harshness, but as you say you feel that your system doesn't track the increase of volume - could be reason for a higher quality power cord like Naim Powerline or something similar , but I feel that your problem stems from as you realise yourself - from adverse reaction of room acoustics, as you turn up the volume , reflections increase and speaker noise is compromised from  letting you hear them properly.                                                       Try putting the system in another area of the room or in another room , if you feel that you still have a situation at least you can narrow down what the problem comes from.

I've had a bit of a play with speaker placement. I don't feel I've changed the nature of the sound but I have improved the imaging! I don't have the option of changing rooms so will have to think about adding a few rugs as this is still quite an expanse of bare wooden floor on show.  I've not been able to try adding another mains block for the hifi yet. I did try but the one I had available doesn't reach the hifi table. I've ordered a budget hifi orientated one off eBay as I am a bit sceptical as took whether that will help but we ll see.  

A may try adding a psu for the 2qute but again im not totally convinced as to whether playing with power, mains etc. Is the underlying cause of the sound balance I'm hearing.  Trouble is I've never sat down in a hifi store or at home and critically listened to the differences a different  psu, hicap, etc can make. Hence I remain a bit sceptical. 

Cheers