282/200 - What a revelation....

Posted by: totemphile on 16 May 2011

Last week I took delivery of a 282/200 to replace my SuperNait. I had not planned for this but as fate would have it a very good offer presented itself for a mint 282, barely a year old. The offer was simply too good to let it pass by. I was lucky enough to source an equally newish 200 shortly afterwards and both finally arrived at the end of last week. I spent the weekend taking down my system, readjusting the individual Fraim levels and setting it all up again. And I have to say, I am absolutely blown away by the difference this joint upgrade has made to the overall performance of my system and more importantly the enjoyment derived from the music being played. The 282 adds a level of resolution and presence that is simply way above that which I had experienced with the SuperNait so far. The 200, or both together, has added a level of control that I had simply not experienced thus far. Both suit the Forest perfectly, the speakers are absolutely loving it. In fact they've been waiting for this ever since I bought them.

It has been a long journey to finally arrive at a point again where things are well balanced. Some of you may recall from my earlier posts that I started out with a CD5X/ Nait XS/ FC2X/ Totem Arro combo. I was very happy with that system, well balanced, simple and all the more fascinating for it. As with many here I had an itch to upgrade to bigger and better speakers though. For me it was the Forest and albeit I loved them from the first day on they were the primary cause for all the upgrades and headaches that have followed since. My system became unbalanced by their introduction, the Nait XS was no longer sufficiently powerful to drive them properly. The SuperNait followed. I liked it a lot but never quite loved it completely, something was still missing. The bass of the Forest remained uncontrolled with certain types of music and at times at high volumes too. To be fair room acoustics also played a part in this. I experimented with mass loading, 5Kg of dry silica sand in each of the lower cabinets did some good but it still was not perfect.

For a long time I categorically dismissed the pre/power route, for rack space and financial reasons. The SuperNait seemed like the ideal solution, when it wasn't, not for the Forest at least, not in my system and the room the speakers are in. It is difficult to quantify but I would go so far as to say that the 282/200 has been the most significant and rewarding upgrade so far in a long chain of upgrades. This combination is so sweet, absolutely sublime. Today I was reading another post here on the forum, where someone spoke of his level of contentment, that for the first time he felt he had reached a point where things were just right. I had that exact feeling when I heard the 282/200 playing for the first time. All that came to mind was WOW! The energy and drive this combination brings to the party is in a different league completely. The Forest just can't get enough of it and I am loving it!!

I should add, the 282/200 was great on its own when I first heard it. In fact I had planned to run this combination without any additional power supply to save me another Fraim level. For better or worse I still had my FCXS lying about and decided to hook it up to the 282, just to see what sort of difference it made. And what a difference it did make! It brought the entire presentation alive to a point that I had not experienced with the Nait XS or SuperNait thus far. TBO I never thought the FCXS or HC2 for that matter made such a big change to the SuperNait to begin with and couldn't quite understand some people's comments here on the forum. I had tested both at home extensively and stayed with the FCXS instead of changing to the HC2. But whatever reservations I may have had regarding the usage of these PSUs with those two amps, with the 282 it was at an entirely different level. I then decided to connect another SNAIC cable to power the second analogue section of the 282 and although the impact it made was not as substantial as the first one, it was still clearly audible. I have said this before when comparing the effect of the FCXS with that of the HC2 on the SuperNait, and this experience has reinforced my view, the FCXS may just be the best VFM upgrade within the Naim hierarchy of PSUs and it quite possibly does not receive the recognition it deserves. It would be interesting to hear how it compares to a HC2 or even a SC on the 282.

Last but not least I would like to share some thoughts and emotions. On occasions I have been quite outspoken against upgrades in general and the all too free recommendation of them here on the forum. My often critical response was driven by a genuine belief that spending your money on yet more and better hifi equipment is not going to make anyone happy. In some ways I thought all this was quite simply an obscene indulgence that bears no justification whatsoever, while all along I slowly but surely tweaked my system here and there to the level it is at today. My reservations still remain but for the first time I can honestly say that this upgrade has made me think about whether I might not have been a bit too harsh on you folks and myself. At the end of the day everyone will have made similar experiences at one time or another, at one level or another. Who am I to know where that level is at? The bug has bitten, I am already dreaming of a 250!

Thanks

Posted on: 16 May 2011 by Elbow

I remember the day I swapped out my 202 for a 282. It was a huge step up. Congratulations and enjoy.

Posted on: 16 May 2011 by mlauner

Wait until You get two hicaps and the 250, you will be blown away. I auditioned a 200/202 against the supernait and was duly impressed but you are continuing well up the ladder!

Posted on: 16 May 2011 by Pedro

Congrats on your system. It's a wonderful feeling when upgrades work out so well, removing all hints of 'buyers remorse' and replacing it with that real sense of musical nirvana. I upgraded from a 112/150 to a 282/200 and was highly impressed as you are. The 282 is one of those Naim boxes that really delivers musical magic. When combined with the 200 it can really open up your musical connection.

The beauty of the 282 is the flexibility it provides on the PSUs. You can power it with the 200 (fine), the Flatcap better), one Hicap (good), 2 Hicaps (excellent) and the ultimate for the 282, the Supercap (amazing). All with the 200 in tow and all IMHO of course. I've always been a big fan of the Hicap ever since I added one to my (then) 62/90. Doesn't quite prepare you for a Supercap though. Anyway, that's all for the future should you decide to go further. In the meantime, enjoy you (like) new music collection as the 282 reveals so much more of your music.

Pete

Posted on: 17 May 2011 by AMA

Originally Posted by Elbow:

I remember the day I swapped out my 202 for a 282. It was a huge step up. Congratulations and enjoy.

The same do I !

Posted on: 17 May 2011 by LeeT

Congratulations... now dig out all those cd's you'd kind of stopped listening to and give them another go

Posted on: 17 May 2011 by True Blue

Congratulations on your purchases :-)

I remember when I had my XS I auditioned the XS+Hicap / Bare SN/ SN+Hi Cap / 202+200

I liked the S/N but it didnt blow me away TBH, then the 202/200 was set up (damn these tempting dealers). I left with a 2nd hand 200 and their demo 202 :-)

To which I added the NAPSC and HICAP.

Wonderful step up over the S/N, I cannot imagine how big a jump the 282 is, enjoy my friend.

Paul

Posted on: 17 May 2011 by chun wei

Hi Totemphile

Congratulations on your upgrade, after reading your threads I feel like upgrading from Supernait to 200/202

Posted on: 17 May 2011 by catalinmetal

chun wei take care that SN and 202/200 sound quite different as far as Naims go... you may or you may not like it! it is no doubt better performance, i guess the greatest skip inside the Naim world to me, between the SN pre and the 202, but some may find 202 a bit too much of something...

Posted on: 17 May 2011 by chun wei

Originally Posted by catalinmetal:

Hi Catalinmetal,

I came across some user saying that the 202/200 combo is harsh, some said supernait and the 202/200 sound the same, some said the 202/200 are more superior then the supernait and the other way round. I supposed at the end of the day is what speaker or source they are using right? I can't comment much here, never compare both this setup side by side with same speaker and source

Posted on: 17 May 2011 by JBGood

totemphile,

Enjoy the toons...

Posted on: 17 May 2011 by AMA

Originally Posted by chun wei:

I supposed at the end of the day is what speaker or source they are using right?

Or the ears they are listening through

Posted on: 17 May 2011 by sheffieldgraham

Originally Posted by mlauner:

Wait until You get two hicaps and the 250, you will be blown away. I auditioned a 200/202 against the supernait and was duly impressed but you are continuing well up the ladder!

I've tried all PSU combinations with the 250/282 combo. I don't think 2xHiCaps on the 282 is a huge step. The SuperCap is altogether a different matter. If you were into vinyl replay a HiCap on the phono stage and one on the 282 is a better combination.

Posted on: 17 May 2011 by chun wei

Originally Posted by AMA:

Originally Posted by chun wei:

I supposed at the end of the day is what speaker or source they are using right?

Or the ears they are listening through

yup, yup, yup, yup or what type of music

Posted on: 17 May 2011 by chun wei

Originally Posted by chun wei:

Originally Posted by AMA:

Originally Posted by chun wei:

I supposed at the end of the day is what speaker or source they are using right?

Or the ears they are listening through

yup, yup, yup, yup or what type of music

I mean through their ear

Posted on: 17 May 2011 by Hook

Hi Totemphile -

Congrats on your new setup, and glad to hear you are enjoying it!

Also, +1 to Sheffieldgraham's comment on PS's.

Hook

Posted on: 17 May 2011 by u12688757292584457

I really liked the 282 but I never really liked it with the Supercap2, i know many love it that way. Yes it did some things better but didnt sound as natural to me. Of course Your milage may vary.

Posted on: 17 May 2011 by totemphile

Guys - thanks for the kind replies!

@Pete - TBO when I added the FCXS it felt like everything was just right. I don't think I will ever add a HC2, not unless I need half a Fraim space for something else. I have a feeling that a single HC2 won't be much of an improvement over the FCXS anyway, it has come some way since its FC2X days and it has closed the gap to the HC2 by some margin I think. I prefer to make upgrades that are big improvements, rather than little tweaks. So yes, the thought of adding a SC at some point in the future has crossed my mind but for now the FCXS will do just fine. The nDAC is next on my list, I am already looking out for one and as soon as I come across a good offer I will add it to my system. It will be a nice upgrade for the CDX2.2 but more importantly it will open up digital audio options again, now that I have lost the built-in DAC of the SuperNait. I want to experiment with the nDAC and computer audio for a while, set up a digital music library and use my Sonos ZP90 more. I have started and I love its beautiful UI. From what I can tell Naim still have a long way to go on the UI front and I don't want to live with the aggravation that comes from having to deal with an unsophisticated control point. Plus the ZP90 is not my main medium for audio replay yet. I still love putting on a good CD, opening that swing tray of the CDX2.2 gets my nostalgic emotions flowing, it feels good. I plan to sit back for a while and observe before making up my mind on the NDX. Let's see what else Naim come up with on the streaming front this year and how their control app is going to develop.

Best

Posted on: 17 May 2011 by Tony Russell

I found a single Hicap made a real improvement to my 82. Dont rule it out.

Posted on: 17 May 2011 by totemphile

Have you done a direct comparison with the effect a FCXS has?

Posted on: 17 May 2011 by Christopher_M

Originally Posted by chun wei:

Hi Totemphile

Congratulations on your upgrade, after reading your threads I feel like upgrading from Supernait to 200/202

CDX2 first!

Tp, many congrats.

Chris

Posted on: 17 May 2011 by chun wei

Originally Posted by Christopher_M:

Originally Posted by chun wei:

Hi Totemphile

Congratulations on your upgrade, after reading your threads I feel like upgrading from Supernait to 200/202

CDX2 first!

Tp, many congrats.

Chris

Hi Chris,

If I have budget which one will you recomend to upgrade first? get a hicap or CDX2 first?

Thanks.

Totemphile,

Sorry, to hijack your thread for while

Posted on: 17 May 2011 by chun wei

Originally Posted by totemphile:

Guys - thanks for the kind replies!

Hi Totemphile,

So adding a FCXS is good enough? No need HC2 ? If that is the case is good news to me I can save the money to get CDX2 or CD5XS or perhaps the Unitti.

Thanks

Posted on: 17 May 2011 by rock100

Totem I really enjoyed your upgrade story. Through it, I was able to relive my joy when I went from an XS to a 282/200. Like your experience, it just sounded right from the start. The magic of Naim for me is it delivers the emotion and enjoyment of the music. Everything else is much less important.

Posted on: 18 May 2011 by Tony Russell

Originally Posted by totemphile:

Have you done a direct comparison with the effect a FCXS has?

Hicap is a big improvemnt over FC.

Posted on: 18 May 2011 by totemphile

Originally Posted by chun wei:

Originally Posted by totemphile:

Guys - thanks for the kind replies!

Hi Totemphile,

So adding a FCXS is good enough? No need HC2 ? If that is the case is good news to me I can save the money to get CDX2 or CD5XS or perhaps the Unitti.

Thanks

Hi Chun Wei,

my view regarding the FCXS is based on my experience of both PSUs on the SuperNait and the system I had then (SN/FCXS/CDX2.2), it has to be seen in that context. Other people may hear different things. To base your decision solely on people's comments here on the forum is never a good idea, only you can tell. My decision whether to keep the FCXS or buy the HC2 was also influenced by other factors. At the time I did not want a half case on my Fraim unless it really brought about a substantial improvement to SQ because I liked the full width of the FCXS better. Money was not a factor cause the upgrade cost would only have been €200, which would have been a good deal. You are starting from a different base, you don't own a FCXS at the moment. In your case I would probably go for a HC2, unless you don't like its half size or are planning to buy a CD5XS, i.e. want to use both upgrade options of the FCXS. From a SQ point of view my best advice would be to listen to both side by side.

Hope this helps