Murder. Not Dangerous Driving. Not reckless driving etc etc . Murder.

Every now and again you come across an HGV doing over 60mph. Illegal, and I guess the driver's circumvented the speed limiter.

Huge posted:

Mike,  HGVs of classes required to be fitted with a speed limiter, if travelling at 60mph in the UK, are breaking the law.  Not the RTA (which is the legislation under which speeding penalties are issued) but the EU legislation concerning the fitment and operation of seed limiting devices! 

Sorry Huge & deleted & edited my stuff  & we're out of syc  ............

I am fully aware of all the trucking industry,  my old job was associated deep into that,  we had to design equipment around the various regulations.   We even facilitated the vehicle speeds through our satellite/cell data acquisition system.   ,,,,,,,,  & I believe prosecution for exceeding 56mph limit is not followed other than in accident cases, due in part to the limiters accuracy & over speed on down hill sections..  However as I understand it they are not applying the usual 10% +1mph rule (62.6mph) & will prosecute anything over 60mph.  

Huge posted:

Don Atkinson posted:

Huge posted:

1  Is there a reason I should have to slow to 56 behind the lorries, Yes, overall it's safer  rather than them slowing to a legal speed (which they are in the wrong for exceeding in the first place!).  Perhaps you are thinking that I should drive to the same standard as they are? No, not at all  Do you think I should be tailgating the lorries?  Absolutely not. Perhaps you think lorry drivers should never use the middle lane to overtake, in case they impede someone else? No. But I do consider they should be more aware of the situation they sometimes create when overtaking at 0.5mph faster than the lorry they are trying to overtake - and not overtake The same principle applies.

2  They will have to wait less time for me at 70 than I would have to wait for the lorries at 56, so they are being impeded less than you think that I should acceptYes, but you claim to be a responsible motorist and a little self-sacrifice would avoid a potentially dangerous situation developing (even though my action is legal and theirs isn't).

Your logic would only hold water if you consider me responsible for their choice to break the law. Not at all. I'm simply looking at how responsible drivers can avoid creating unnecessary dangerous situations.

 

Don, I assume then that you find that you quite frequently have to deploy your "slow down and don't overtake method" yourself?

Not really. From time to time perhaps, but then I usually just ease off a bit, let them pass then speed up again.

The other option I use is to speed up (to 80 if necessary) and overtake the lorries quickly, without impeding the following car(s).

Hi Mike, I believe you're right, if the excess speed was due to failure of a speed limiter where the organisation is otherwise complying with legislation, prosecution would not be in the public interest (as they are attempting to comply with the law).  However if the limiter has been found to have been intentionally disabled, I believe prosecution will normally follow.

I like the way my forum puts my post first with a 2 min later timestamp - another bug (but very minor).

Tony, speed limiters do occasionally fail to operate correctly, so exceeding speed thresholds can be failure rather than deliberately disabling the device.

Don Atkinson posted:

Huge posted:

Don, I assume then that you find that you quite frequently have to deploy your "slow down and don't overtake method" yourself?

Not really. From time to time perhaps, but then I usually just ease off a bit, let them pass then speed up again.

The other option I use is to speed up (to 80 if necessary) and overtake the lorries quickly, without impeding the following car(s).

Don, you're fortunate not to have to drive on crowded sections of our motorway system (such as the M4 near Bristol or London).  Otherwise this occurrence would be quite frequent for you, as a 22+mph speed difference between lane 2 and lane 3 isn't particularly unusual.  Often you'd then find that you're not be able to get back into lane 3 for some time, as, at these times, lane 3 is usually a sequence of nose-to-tail speeding motorists each trying to drive faster than the one in front of them.

Huge posted:

Don Atkinson posted:

Huge posted:

Don, I assume then that you find that you quite frequently have to deploy your "slow down and don't overtake method" yourself?

Not really. From time to time perhaps, but then I usually just ease off a bit, let them pass then speed up again.

The other option I use is to speed up (to 80 if necessary) and overtake the lorries quickly, without impeding the following car(s).

Don, you're fortunate not to have to drive on crowded sections of our motorway system (such as the M4 near Bristol or London).  Otherwise this occurrence would be quite frequent for you, as a 22+mph speed difference between lane 2 and lane 3 isn't particularly unusual.  Often you'd then find that you're not be able to get back into lane 3 for some time, as, at these times, lane 3 is usually a sequence of nose-to-tail speeding motorists each trying to drive faster than the one in front of them.

I like it !

Solution.

Let the train take the strain ...

And get a bike for local journeys ...

Not always very convenient, but much less stress ...

George Fredrik Fiske posted:

Solution.

Let the train take the strain ...

And get a bike for local journeys ...

Not always very convenient, but much less stress ...

George,

The railway system is closed for Xmas and the New Year. Next closure is scheduled for Easter...............and most weekends in between.

I work at an airfield that doesn't have a direct connection to the railway system. There is a station, about five miles away but the journey time by rail, door to door, would be in excess of 2½ hours including the taxi journey at each end vide the car journey of 45 mins (or 35 mins if I'm in a hurry). In fact, I don't think I could make the train journey work in the morning to be at the airfield by 08:00.............

The 45 min car journey isn't at all stressful. I tootle along main dual carriageway roads in the morning with plenty of time to spare, listening to Radio 4 and in the evening I enjoy the country roads back home in peace and quiet. Idillic !

Get real.

This thread raises several interesting points.

Firstly, Rod will be pleased there are no quotes included within this post!!

Agree with Winky’s main observation that driving is one of the most dangerous things we do and which many of us take for granted/ don’t give enough thought to.

Speed awareness courses are all well and good. They’re main points are well made however, I am a little suspicious about what vehicle they use for their statisics – the braking performance varies considerably between vehicles/ braking systems/ tyres/ weather conditions. I am more than a little suspicious about the big business they have become in UK and the motives behind them however pure the original intent may have been.

 As our UK motorways become overgrown with traffic cones and 50mph ever longer stretches awaiting works to be carried out at some ill defined time in the future, we are being forced to get accustomed to travelling longer/ slower. Eventually I suspect the entire motorway network will have average speed cameras and managed speed limits to control the flow of traffic.   I find it an interesting idea that the powers that be could be authorized to increase the maximum permitted speed beyond 70mph at times of very low traffic. I don’t have a problem with this – there would be no requirement for drivers to sit at the speed limit; and those with sufficient confidence would be able to. Should traffic conditions deteriorate, the speed limit would be reduced accordingly. All quite sensible, rather than the default of only being able to reduce speed limits below 70mph.

 I experienced the German Autobahns many years back as a youngster in the 1970s. Very impressive it was traveling along the unrestricted sections. Discipline was generally good however, when accidents occurred they could be spectacular – the combination of high speed and high numbers of vehicles caught up in the high speed train was quite deadly. People basically don’t seem capable of helping their competitive edge and creep faster and faster if not restrained – hence the variable limiting would intervene to help prevent egos causing crashes.

 With the introduction of digital speed cameras, the tolerance traditionally shown by traffic police officers (and in most of our assumptions when driving) is vanishing. I received a ticket/ speed awareness course for 32mph in a 30mph zone in Cardiff during the summer (my first ever penalty in over 30 years!). Quite a change in regime and one that has crept in unannounced. The danger is that we are left paying more attention to our speedometers rather than the conditions around us. Folks have assumed there is a tolerance in speed enforcement, largely due to inaccuracies in measurement and car speedometers. This seems to be changing and more should be done by the authorities to inform Joe Public that the digital age contains little or no tolerance – the speed limits really are becoming rigid limits.

 Mobile phones. Well now. Perhaps a tad controversial but my opinion is that their use should be prohibited whilst a vehicle is moving. Period. Let’s not bother about the hand held/ hands free debate – the process of concentrating on a conversation by telephone is hugely distracting. There are service stations, lay-bys, etc. and these are perfect locations for making telephone calls. An outright ban (a bit harsh on passengers perhaps!) removes any and all ambiguity about the use of mobiles including texting, emailing, internet use, etc, etc. Car manufacturers won’t appreciate the loss of revenue on their optional extras but hey hoh – must be a positive for road safety. This area really needs to be hit hard in the UK where standards have dropped hugely – perhaps in relation to the apparently reduced number of traffic police we see on the road network?

 Refresher courses – I’m all for them. May seem over the top but I think we should all be compelled to attend a refresher course at least every 5 years. 10 years is just too long a gap.

 Tailgaters and windscreen washers – I used to use that trick. Mostly it worked until one day a lunatic in an S Class Merc went berserk – the cheek of having windscreen washer fluid on his flashy motor from someone who would simply not get out of his way (irrespective of speed/ traffic conditions/ etc) was too much for him. When found a space to move in, he whooshed past, ducked into the non-existent space in front of me, and let loose with his super-turbo-powered windscreen washers – revenge was sweet!! The point being that tailgaters are not right in the head in the first instance (goodness only knows what is distracting them) and tactics like windscreen washer jibes can push them over the edge into causing a nasty accident – that’s what very nearly happened to me and the cars close to me back then. I’m not suggesting completely passive driving techniques, but the washer tactic is not one I continue to employ!

 So there you have it, my take on some of the points raised. Take it easy out on the roads over the holiday period.

Peter

Nice write-up Peter.

I agree with much of what you have to say (including avoiding quotes within quotes)

I had become aware of the tendency towards lower speed tolerances, especially in built up areas and I agree especially with your observation that this can lead to over-concentration on the speedometer rather the the situation ahead.

Also the speed-awareness courses (I haven't been on one) now seem to be money-spinners rather than safety driven.

I also like Bananahead's idea of increasing the motorway speed limit at suitable times. But this would require all motorways to have speed control signals. However, if the upper limit is simply set at 80, I don't see any difference to having the upper limit = 80mph and the powers that be reducing it progressively as they do now from 70mph. Or am I missing something ?