What DSD Format Is Required To Play On an NDX?

Both Sony DSF and DFF files should be recognised and playable by the NDX provided they are DSD64 ISOs and not the higher resolution DSD128 or DSD256. I prefer to convert to DSF as this format can handle tags more easily (I tag the files using mp3tag in windows). Perhaps the naim app cannot see them as they haven't been tagged correctly. I'm using ISO2DSD to convert to DSF and have had no issues thus far.

BTW what server software are you using?

It's not clear whether you are playing from USB stick or UPnP. If the latter of course your UPnP media software has to be able to support DSD files (DSF and DFF) to be able to show them in the Naim app, and play out at the streamer.

i use MinimServer which supports DSD well.

For info, if you stream the DSD from your streamer via SPDIF, the DSD info is re packaged into DoP stream (DSD encoded within a WAV/PCM sample data framing structure) .. and a DSD capable DAC will this detect this and Decode DSD. A non DSD capable DAC will playback a noise!

Simon

Maybe silly question again. But once the DAC has got the capability to play DSD formats can we use the NDX (for example) as a sort of transport for DSD files (from UPnP) to send as the digital signal to DAC? (to overcome NDX limitations in DSD "bitrate" sorry for not professional language) ?

But back home on my HDX & DSD64 only, DSD sounds superior to PCM,  but I am inclined to believe its more to do with the music, the care in the studio, the recording process & less(none) processing & noise shaping that makes DSD the better SQ 

Motoman,

Have tried converting a test iso to both Philips DSDIFF (DFF) and DSDIFF Edit Master. I can get both versions to play via the naim app using Minimserver HOWEVER whilst you can access them via the "folder" browsing views, you cannot see them in any of the usual tag browsing categories e.g. album/artist etc. I'm pretty sure that this is due to the issue of tagging DFF files (they cannot be tagged using mp3tag). Also, converting to DSDIFF Edit Master produces only a single DFF file for the whole album plus a cue file so I would suggest sticking to the DSF file format. 

Mike,

The info data contained on DSD (SACD) discs is a bit hit and miss (I've seen DSD isos where the "album" info is given as simply the label copyright details). Certainly DSD info data seems to have no standard format at all. For this reason, whilst some UPnP servers such as JRiver can play DSD isos, you need to use their own tagging facility to have any useful tagging regime.

Converting the DSD iso to DSF makes sense as, whilst the original "tags" pulled out of the ISO may be not very useful, you can at least re-tag the DSF files to fit in with whatever browsing/navigation system you use and these tags can be read by different UPnP servers.

Mike,

Reading your post again, you probably read that DSF files carry tags/metadata and DFF files do not. If that was the case, then you are correct.

http://www.computeraudiophile....at-difference-19643/

supmario posted:

Maybe silly question again. But once the DAC has got the capability to play DSD formats can we use the NDX (for example) as a sort of transport for DSD files (from UPnP) to send as the digital signal to DAC? (to overcome NDX limitations in DSD "bitrate" sorry for not professional language) ?

Absolutely - this is what I do. I use a MinimServer UPnP Media server, and use my NDX to drive my Hugo DAC via SPDIF. The Hugo detects the DSD encoding within the DoP structure sent via SPDIF, switches into DSD mode (DSD light illuminates). The Naim app and NDX reports that the media playing is DSD64.

It works a treat

Simon

Hmm - could go either way

The NDX can not handle DSD128 in anyway (currently) so I beleive.

Simon

If the NDX can handle 24bit/192kHz PCM files (9216 kb/s) it might not be such a stretch to manage the additional bit rate perhaps as DoP if this is to pass through to an external DSD capable DAC. However, it would be good to have a definitive view from Naim on this.

To go above DSD64 and send as DoP requires  176.2 kHz PCM framing and to send DoP as DSD128 would require a non standard and I believe out of spec SPDIF transport frequency - DSD128 would require I believe 352.8kHz DoP

The DFF or DSF payload can be carried more efficiently via Ethernet directly using UPnP

However it may be the SHARC processor has not got enough grunt to process above DSD64 in the streamer architectures

Simon

Apparently the streaming core processor can't output beyond a 192kHz sample rate in the Naim streamers.   For DSD128 it needs a sample rate of 352.8kHz

Yes - the SHARC processor would appear to reclock and repackage the DSD into DoP according to the Naim white papers

So it looks like the streamers would have to have a hardware upgrade to go beyond the current sample rate limit. 

possibly - for internal playback I believe the limiting factor is the SHARC processor power. For external playback its the processor and SPDIF. However the NDAC supports DSD128 I believe so we may see this as a future firmware upgrade.. now we are in the areas that only Naim will know

It seems as if the consensus of opinion is to use DSF. However, I have tried DSF and it still doesn't show up.

As for my setup, I have all of my files on a Netgear NAS. The music is streamed over ethernet by UPnP to the NDX. I have not tried playing anything from a USB drive. The DSD files are 64bit, 176,400K. I convert the ISO to DSD using Sonore's ISO2DSD Converter. If I go to FLAC, I use Sonore's DSD2FLAC converter, at 24 bit/192k. I don't use any media management software such as Access or JRiver with the NDX. I use the DNLA server on the Netgear NAS, which has worked fine with music files until now. To play the files, I access using the Naim IOS App. If the folder contains only DSD files, it does not show up on the IOS App. If the folder contains FLAC files and DSD files, the folder will show up but only play the FLAC files. The DSD files do not show up. The NDX has the latest, 4.4 firmware, incidentally.

So, what, if anything, am I doing wrong, and what do I need to do to play the DSD files through the Naim IOS App?

Does your Netgear DLNA server support DSD streaming?

I'm not sure.  I didn't realize that it had to do anything other than make the file available to the NDX, which would have to decode the file properly.  It streams all video and other audio files just fine.  Because so many people referred to MinimServer, I just looked at that, but it does not support the Netgear 516 -- the current Netgear NAS series.  

So far DSD64

Looking on the Netgear Community forum it seems that Netgear's ReadyDLNA does not support DSD file streaming.

Your option would seem to be to install a UPnP server on your computer (e.g. JRiver, Minimserver or Asset R5) and have this serve the files stored on your NAS if you cannot find a DSD capable server which will run on the NAS itself.

Thanks so much for going through the effort of looking that up.  I was still looking into whether the MinimServer could be made to run on the 516 even though it was written for the older Ultra Plus series.  I also have Plex running on the NAS, but I only use that for music and video while traveling or on my iPad at night.  I don't think Plex supports DSD.  I wonder if the difference between DSD64 and FLAC 24/96 or 24/192 is significant enough to bother . . .  My current system:

Focal Diablo Utopia III

Mordaunt-Short Performance 9 Sub

Plinius SA 102 2 Channel

Plinius M12 Preamp

Marantz 8801 pre/pro HT (I have combined my music and HT systems, albeit sadly, when we moved from large house with dedicated music room to not so large condo . . .)

Naim NDX

Motoman, it might be worthwhile looking at the solution suggested by Eloise in another thread here

 https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...01#51267012148070601

You could try converting a test file to DoP FLAC to see whether the FLAC container fools the ReadyDLNA server to stream the file to your NDX.