My return to vinyl after 15 years

GerryMcg posted:

Some years back, I decided to try out vinyl again with and old Ariston RD11S stored in the loft as I did not rate it good enough to sell and had not been used for 30 years. I bought a few records from a local shop and came to the conclusion that there was definitely something about vinyl that was different/better (?) than CD but the old bugbear of surface noise and clicks were very much present and I decided to remain digital.

However, vinyl remained an object of desire, and I nearly bought a deck on a number of occasions but dithered and stuck with streaming. This year "the itch" grew and two months ago I bought a Roksan 20+ with Artemiz and Ortofon  Cadenza Bronze cartridge. Phono stage is Graham Slee. 

Well, now two months in I am absolutely delighted with the SQ and to me it beats the NDS/555ps by some margin, even the HD tracks I have bought. The most surprising aspect is that the surface noise is virtually non existent, even on those albums I had bought 4years ago and stored in my garage where our (almost) resident builder has been sawing, planing drilling etc for the past 2 years. 

I have delayed posting my thoughts on this in order to ensure was firmly based, I now have a collection of 50+ albums. My good friend came over on Tuesday, he has an active SL2 system with Nap300's and his almost immediate reaction was that the music seemed more alive and organic, which is precisely how I find the SQ.

I have now cancelled my VPN subscription as I will be buying vinyl rather than HiRes tracks from HD Tracks.

 I opted for the Roksan based on reviews that it did not emphasise surface noise and also on Polar Bear's testimonials. 

At the moment I am using a cheap QED RCA/DIN lead and as mentioned above the Graham Slee phono stage, and am wondering what may be better alternatives?. Recommendations welcomed.

Gerry

 

So where do you think Linn got Lp12 from? A Thorens? If you goggle you'll find people that can set it back in order. And.....Graham Slee phono is not bad at all.

I am very aware of the LP12 history, but I much preferred the Townsen Rock to the Ariston when I "upgraded" it many years back.

With regard to the Graham Slee I am very pleased with it just wondering how much improvement may be available.  

Available improvement? Did you get upgraditis already? 

Hi Gerry,

What an uplifting post and with such a positive outcome.  The Xerxes 20+ is a lovely deck, especially with an Artemiz arm.  I also had one of these until very recently.

Given the calibre of your whole system, it will be very, very revealing of changes in set up and/or any elements of your system.  So, if you like it now then tread very cautiously from now on.  It is so easy to lose a system's balance with superficially impressive hifi upgrades.

The Xerxes and Artemiz were both designed by Touraj when he owned 50% of Roksan.  He sold his half to Tufan, then set up Vertere Acoustics who now make their own turntables, tonearms and posh cables (that bear a remarkably close resemblance to Naim's super lumina - and not by coincidence).  I opted to stay with Touraj rather than Tufan - hence my new Vertere turntable.

Depending on which motor controller you have, either the Vertere SG-1 or the brand new Roksan motor controller (RPM or VSC) will fundamentally improve an already excellent deck.  The Vertere Pulse interconnects are also rather good (as both PB and I will attest, using them in our own systems)

There are multiple phono stages that you could opt for, depending on the cartridge that you intend to settle for in the longer term.

However, given the calibre of your system, it really is best to find an excellent, experienced Roksan dealer to guide your through the maze of possible tweaks & improvements, as I have found it so important to keep the"balance" of a system while avoiding apparent "hifi" improvements as you upgrade.  This can be surprisingly difficult to do.  The best Roksan dealer that I know of in the UK is the Audio Republic in Headingley (who is also a Naim dealer), though there are undoubtedly others. 

Hope this helps a bit, FT

Thanks for the advice FT. With regard to upgraditis, if I had known at the outset how good the vinyl system would sound in my system I would have probably explored more expensive ancillaries. I am in no rush to upgrade at the moment, perhaps apart form the interconnect

The Power supply is the basic Roksan unit, but with 13 shelves full of equipment I do not have room for a larger unit. 

OP, I wonder what style/era of music you are buying. I found vinyl OK but digital is better despite a $1200 dollar cart and $4000 plus phono stage. Your 555 NDS is above my nDAC XPS2 DR, although the DAC is fully Nordost Valhalla and every other high end tweak you can think of.  Maybe your digital is still sub optimally setup. This could explain our different findings.

Gerry,

Welcome to the Roksan elite  6 years on my Xerxes is the one piece of hi-fi equipment I'll never change.  When my wife first heard the Xerxes the first thing she commented on was the lack of surface noise.

I think you're right not to upgrade yet - always best to consolidate.  But the Reference level PSU or the Vertere really is a substantial improvement.  In the interim though just enjoy the groove.

Strat

Briz Vegas posted:

OP, I wonder what style/era of music you are buying. I found vinyl OK but digital is better despite a $1200 dollar cart and $4000 plus phono stage. Your 555 NDS is above my nDAC XPS2 DR, although the DAC is fully Nordost Valhalla and every other high end tweak you can think of.  Maybe your digital is still sub optimally setup. This could explain our different findings.

 

 

I am very certain this is not the case over the past year I have listened to many different systems, and none were as good as mine (pre Vinyl). Also my friend agreed that the Roksan delivered a superior sound to his Naim active system.

Perhaps it's a matter of system room synergy. 

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Gerry,

Welcome to the Roksan elite  6 years on my Xerxes is the one piece of hi-fi equipment I'll never change.  When my wife first heard the Xerxes the first thing she commented on was the lack of surface noise.

I think you're right not to upgrade yet - always best to consolidate.  But the Reference level PSU or the Vertere really is a substantial improvement.  In the interim though just enjoy the groove.

Strat

 

I have bought around 15 new LP's  the rest second hand. Many of the latter have obvious marks on the vinyl but not audible, much to my amazement.

Briz Vegas posted:

OP, I wonder what style/era of music you are buying. I found vinyl OK but digital is better despite a $1200 dollar cart and $4000 plus phono stage. Your 555 NDS is above my nDAC XPS2 DR, although the DAC is fully Nordost Valhalla and every other high end tweak you can think of.  Maybe your digital is still sub optimally setup. This could explain our different findings.

 

 

Well Briz true digital is getting very good nut my Xerxes still provides a better musical experience than my CDS3/XPS2.

Excellent Gerry; the Xerxes is a very musical deck.  That Vertere power supply is temptingly small though... 

re vinyl vs CD or streaming, my CD player is pretty well set up, yet music from the turntable leaves it very far behind on 90% of albums.  The CD player only betters the turntable on those few LPs which seem to suffer from some form of pitch instability.

Fortunately, we are in the lucky position of being able to replay music in whichever format we prefer for that particular album or track.

Enjoy!

Best regards, FT

GerryMcg posted:

Briz Vegas posted:

OP, I wonder what style/era of music you are buying. I found vinyl OK but digital is better despite a $1200 dollar cart and $4000 plus phono stage. Your 555 NDS is above my nDAC XPS2 DR, although the DAC is fully Nordost Valhalla and every other high end tweak you can think of.  Maybe your digital is still sub optimally setup. This could explain our different findings.

 

 

I am very certain this is not the case over the past year I have listened to many different systems, and none were as good as mine (pre Vinyl). Also my friend agreed that the Roksan delivered a superior sound to his Naim active system.

Perhaps it's a matter of system room synergy. 

Interesting findings. I run a simpler digital set up (NDX > nDac > SuperNait2 via DC1 and TelluriumQ UltraBlack). Tested a number of decks on extensive home demos. And it took a good old LP12 with Radikal and Urika to beat it

Foot tapper posted:

Excellent Gerry; the Xerxes is a very musical deck.  That Vertere power supply is temptingly small though... 

 

Hi FT, how small?. the Roksan version ay around 80mm fits perfectly on my stand adjacent, but on the blind side of a Naim power supply. Also having visited the Vertere website they do not appear to list the PSU as a product for sale.

I will let my system settle in first, although I may change the IC sooner.

In terms of system synergy, a difference that is evident is that in my room, with no soft furnishings whatsoever, I have found most music from the streamer to be on the bright side, room treatment would help but this would be impossible to accomodate aesthetically. The record deck does not exhibit this brightness, although it does not err on the side of excess warmth.

I should have made clearer regarding the absence of surface noise, that I am using a DIY cleaning/hoovering strategy before replay, which seems to have a big impact.

So far there is only one recording where I find that the player does not beat the streamer and that is the HiRes version of the last National album, where the SQ is equal.

A good side benefit of my record deck aquisitio, is that it has finally settled my doubts regarding my non-standard audio stands. I have continually though of replacing them with Fraims but baulked at the cost of 12 shelves without being able to audition. My Roksa is placed on the top shelf of the "brawn" stack with no evident sound deterioration - bass is rock solid.

Hi Gerry,

The Vertere SG-1 motor controller is 12.5cm wide - having just measured mine with a tape measure.

The cost starts at around £950 and rises up to £1500 or so, depending on your choice of cable.

Hopefully this picture will work.  If so, the motor controller is the small silver box on the shelf below the turntable.  Apologies for the quality of the image, which was taken by a smart phone held in a wobbly hand.

Best regards, FT

Thanks FT. May just be a bit too wide, I'll give it some thought.

Cheers

Gerry

I realise now that my vinyl is a bit below the level you guys are playing at, although my phono is up there ( zesto Andros) and the Dynavector 17D3 isnt shabby, i still use a mere Rega P5 with PS.  Eventually getting a Well Tempered Amadeus was as far as i wanted to go given the relative size of my record collection, and how good the DAC sounds. I could justify a 20+ in the context of the rest of my system but its more than i would want or need to spend "going forward" as i am rebalancing my priorities.

Actually my other turntable is a Rega RP6 / Exact with a Rega Aria phonostage. It's hooked up to a simpler system in my other room and it sounds wonderful - I like it's fast attack and detailed, rythmic performance.

It's all a bit system dependent - if you get componentsto match, they will sound wonderfull, irrespective of their price. It's all about fun and music at the end of the day