Where to start?

Seaman posted:

 

Adam: interesting thoughts about the PS to the streamer. Many here on the forum witness that it does quite a signifikant impact to the soundstage and overall performance. This should be the next black box for me I think. One thing, of alla the future upgrades I really am looking forward to is to have myself a proper rack to put my little "babies" in 

That is where I would start - a PSU on the source. I am a firm believer in a 'Source First' principle - if the information is lost at a source, even the best amp, cables and racks will not get it back.

As to a dedicated rack - an absolute must. From my tests, NAIMs are most comfortable on glas shelves. So if you have the space and funds Fraim could be a way forward. You will notice how the sound opens up, all instruments snap into focus.

Seaman posted:

Chris: the Audiovectors has 8 ohm load and are infact a very easy speaker to drive.

Apologies, I read the value for the K1 Signatures in the specs on their site.

I'd get a FCXS. Does nice stuff on your cdp and your amp. You'll want for no more. (well, you might not).

C.

Hi seaman,

I was with spendor and wanted a tad more bass and soundstage especially at lower volumes where bass was lacking and soundstage was thin. I went to proac 148 and found satisfaction.

I think proac studio 148 will give good bass and awesome soundstsage. The response curve is slightly upward in the lows but not enough to become annoying with bass heavy music. They shine at low to mid volume.

The proac studio line or response are both great at soundstage, response line is better at imaging, but studio line sounds fuller and warmer at low volumes. Both good and soundstage is truly stunning.

I can't comment on which possible upgrade would be optimal for you but from personal experience I can say that adding a HiCap to your Nait XS2 will give you a bit deeper and better controlled bass, better soundstaging, and greater clarity... I'm not sure about "oomph."  The differences were obvious, and not subtle, from first switch on in my system, and the great thing about a HiCap is that it'll come in useful should you eventually opt for a NAC 202/282.  I first considered a FlatCap but my dealer (who shall remain nameless) said in his opinion the degree of improvement didn't give the value for money of the HiCap.  Your mileage may vary, however.  If you can home demo a unit that would seem to be a worthwhile place to start. 

Many of you have mentioned proacs but my dealer doesnt have that brand. I'll do a search on the net to see if I have a dealer within reach who also allows homedemos. 

Interesting path with the Hicap, Tallan. My feelings about the Flatcap is mixed - certainly it makes some improvement to the experience but if I should buy a Flatcap I will only be able to utse half of it. If I had the xs pre/power it would be useful for two units, not, as in my case, just one. 

My dealer also gave me the advice, when trying out new set of speakers, to try them out in the system I will like to achieve. In my case that would be: nait xs2/PS, nd5xs/PS, a proper hifirack (Fraim etc), new interconnects, new power cables and speakercables. I'm really looking forward to gradually demo different upgrading possibilities and finally reach my music-Nirvana-moment. 

I suspect that the speakers are indeed the limiting factor in getting the bass wanted. Whilst improvements in the electronics will help make the speakers sound as good as they can possibly be, they won't get a quart out of a point pot. If it were me, I'd be looking for the best pair of speakers I could afford, and best I would only consider secondhand unless I had a budget of maybe 8k or more. That would enable an immediate and very obvious improvement in the bass, while subsequent upgrades of electronics would then be able to bring out even more from the speakers. The challenge with this may be greater difficulty in auditioning.

I'm not convinced that you need to test the speakers with your 'ultimate' system. If you try them with what you have now, you are safe in the knowledge that they work and that they will only get better. Of course, it's quite a clever ruse by your dealer to encourage you to upgrade the electronics sooner rather than later....

Whether you need to travel to hear Proacs depends on what your existing dealer sells.

Coming a bit late to the thread just to suggest nDAC. It has always been a cornerstone of the brand. Even more so with its recent update. It will definitly bring deeper and tighter bass, greater details, airing and impact as asked in the OP.

Chag -

Innocent Bystander: Thats one idea, but I really try to get my xs-system as well balanced that I possibly can without thinking to much about future upgrades (SN2/NDX or 272/250 etc). If I buy a speaker which my xs-system cant get all out of, I'm afraid that the itch of buying new electronics will start to appear very fast. I really like the sound that xs-series produces and want to stick with it for a couple of years. If I choose to go with Audiovector SR3 Super I will have the possibility to upgrade it in the future to SR3 Avantgarde Arrete. Thats one that talks in the favor of the Audiovetors. 

HH: my dealer sells Audiovector, Neat, Dynadio, Naim, Audiophysics, Martin Logan. 

When I read this thread its so many different thoughts about how I could proceed down (up?) the upgradepath. This is what makes it so interesting!

Apologies if this is a slight off-topic post, but is a quick question to HH regarding his post up there ^^^.... regarding your previous PMC twenty.23's. How close can you get them to the rear wall? My room dictates I cant bring any speaker too far into the room. I note you now have SL2's and having never seen, much less heard them, wonder why you changed? Current system is 172XS with NAP 250.2, but end goal is system as per HH's. My next upgrade is 172 to 272....large difference??? Following that will be changing the X2's....lovely top end but muddled and bass not controlled well in my room when the wick is turned up... despite endless postioning tweaks. I do like the look of the PMC twenty series floorstanders and the fact that they are TL design appeals to rear wall placement. Also want something taller than current X2's so can fire over a sofa.....don't ask!!

Happy New Year to all :-)

I had my 23s about eight inches from the wall. Why did I change them - well, I got the 23s when I had a SuperUniti. I then swapped the SU for a 272/250DR and was very happy with the 23s. Many moons ago I had SL2s when I had a bigger system before downsizing, and they remain the best speakers I've ever heard. I happened to spot a reference on the Forum to Cymbiosis having a very nice maple pair for sale, for a very sensible price, so I grabbed them. As well as being miles better than the 23, because they go against the wall it means I can see the telly from all chairs in the room, without the need for the telly to be miles from the wall as well. So as a result I've got loads of floor space back. So they are a winner from both a sonic and domestic perspective. The SL2 is too good for the SU, but fine with the 272/250, even more so with an XPS in place. 

Hope that helps. 

Many thanks for that info HH, The 23's will definitely be on my shortlist. I ultimately want to get to 272/250 +/- DR with different speakers and prob the XPS as the final part of the jigsaw. Auditioning the 272 is next...anyone done 172 v 272 recently ?? BTW...love the look of the SL2's

Seaman posted:

Innocent Bystander: Thats one idea, but I really try to get my xs-system as well balanced that I possibly can without thinking to much about future upgrades (SN2/NDX or 272/250 etc). If I buy a speaker which my xs-system cant get all out of, I'm afraid that the itch of buying new electronics will start to appear very fast. I really like the sound that xs-series produces and want to stick with it for a couple of years

This is very wise. The good thing about the PMC 23 is that they work wery well within an XS system - and you can keep them if you decide to improve the electronics. I heard them with a 272/250 a few months ago, and I use them with a Supernait 2. Room placement is not an issue.

Buying 'too good' a speaker doesn't make a system sound worse, while it simplifies subsequent upgrading if you do decide to upgrade electronics in the future. Either way, what is most important for enjoyment is getting a speaker that literally sounds right, as once you're above basic budget equipment speakers have a greater influence on the overall sound than any other item in the reproduction chain. If it is bass extension that you desire, as in getting the full frequency spectrum at correct relative sound level, then you need a speaker with a response that doesn't fall off att the bottom end (in your room), as no amount of added weight (headroom) will provide it.