Naim CES announcement?

tonym posted:

fred40 posted:

tonym posted:

fred40 posted:

If the Muso represents the Naim sound there is something really wrong with the sound of my Xs....

 If your Muso doesn't sound excellent there's something really wrong with it.

I bought two Muso a while ago. For muzak it's ok playing in the background. But  a much cheaper wireless speaker can do the same thing. To me as I said,earlieer it can never replace a Naim dedicated stereo set.

Just the same as a cheaper wireless speaker then. Hmm. Wonder why you bought two...

That"s not what I"m saying! Depends on how you listen to music. If you want some background music any wireless system can do the trick. Sound quality doesn"t matter. If you really want to listen to a good quality audio performance and realy want to enjoy music get you''re self a decent stereo set. Even a basic Naim set sounds so much better then a Muso.

If Naim really wants to lure a new public into the Naim sound a more basic streamer (standalone) is maybe a wiser idea. On the other hand I may see ghosts where there aren"t any. Still enyoing my set and after 40 years of searching, Naim came  and it could not be better.

"With Statement still spanking new,"

Err, it was launched 2 years ago?

jon honeyball posted:

"With Statement still spanking new,"

Err, it was launched 2 years ago?

Well, with their other power amp designs being over 10 years old that is still relatively new (but not spanking)!

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

The lofi new Sonos room correction, although fun to do - waving microphones around etc - had completely disappointing results.

I think Sonos deserve some credit for Trueplay if for no other reason than they are starting an important dialog about the influence of room acoustics on reproduced sound. It's easy to get sidetracked by DSD, hi-res, MQA; insert your chosen acronym here, and overlook something as fundamental as the room in which the music is played.

Graham Clarke posted:

jon honeyball posted:

"With Statement still spanking new,"

Err, it was launched 2 years ago?

Well, with their other power amp designs being over 10 years old that is still relatively new (but not spanking)!

All a matter of perspective.

GregW posted:

Bananahead posted:

If I was a teenager now I would be looking at wireless speakers. Then I might be tempted by whatever else the brand that I bought made. 

Teenagers are buying Bluetooth speakers and headphones. Wifi speakers are more expensive so they tend to be bought by generation x and older millennials.

Given the youngest X-ers (hi...) are now 36ish I'd hope that naim and other hifi brands aim for a bit more penetration into the 35-55yo market than that.  If, and I suspect this is true to an extent, the industry is relying on boomers, born pre 1960ish, for sales of its high margin items without replacing them with Xers buying mid range (in hifi terms...) products then there's a problem.

To which of course a growth in oligarch/rapper/footballer appealing status products may be a partial solution.

Bananahead posted:

feeling_zen posted:

Am I the only one who thinks that Muso (good or not) and possibly this new product are not the direction for Naim to go in? The whole Muso thing smells like something handed down from the new investors.

"Thou shall make something with greater mass appeal at a lower cost to be sold on the Apple store."

Don't get me wrong. I use a soundbar for the TV in the bedroom. It's not Naim but then I want Naim to focus on hifi rather than Linn-esque lifestyle products.

 

 

I think that the world has changed. When I started my interest in music there was no such thing as CD or Internet or Bluetooth. At onetime I had a Sony Walkman that I had a portable speaker system for. If I was a teenager now I would be looking at wireless speakers. Then I might be tempted by whatever else the brand that I bought made. And now, If my life wasn't disjointed, I would probably be looking at something that played music into my bedroom or kitchen.

If I was a teenager now I would be more likely to be looking at Ariana Grande and listening to music via YouTube or Spotify

Future customers of high level equipment are the teenagers wearing earphones wherever they do. IHMO, if Naim wants to attrack new kids, small portable devices is where the efforts should be concentrated.

dayjay posted:

Bananahead posted:

feeling_zen posted:

Am I the only one who thinks that Muso (good or not) and possibly this new product are not the direction for Naim to go in? The whole Muso thing smells like something handed down from the new investors.

"Thou shall make something with greater mass appeal at a lower cost to be sold on the Apple store."

Don't get me wrong. I use a soundbar for the TV in the bedroom. It's not Naim but then I want Naim to focus on hifi rather than Linn-esque lifestyle products.

 

 

I think that the world has changed. When I started my interest in music there was no such thing as CD or Internet or Bluetooth. At onetime I had a Sony Walkman that I had a portable speaker system for. If I was a teenager now I would be looking at wireless speakers. Then I might be tempted by whatever else the brand that I bought made. And now, If my life wasn't disjointed, I would probably be looking at something that played music into my bedroom or kitchen.

If I was a teenager now I would be more likely to be looking at Ariana Grande and listening to music via YouTube or Spotify

And if you were a teenager in the early 90s you would be more likely to be hankering after a getto blaster and listening to music off home made mix tapes or a walkman.

In a way it hasn't  changed all that much. Back then all my friends did that. I was the weirdo still in secondary school that had Linn. HiFi never really goes mainstream. There is no point even chasing it. If the muso proves anything is that you need build something mainstream to attract mainstream.

And I suppose that is perfectly fine. It remains to be seen whether brand exposure via Muso will translate into "meaningful" seperates customers. Judging by the number of people I know with plenty of exposure to proper hifi but no interest in it, I think a hifi buyer is triggered by something else.

cat345 posted:

Future customers of high level equipment are the teenagers wearing earphones wherever they do. IHMO, if Naim wants to attrack new kids, small portable devices is where the efforts should be concentrated.

Gues they be deaf by then. 

"Future customers of high level equipment are the teenagers wearing earphones wherever they do. IHMO, if Naim wants to attrack new kids, small portable devices is where the efforts should be concentrated."

if anyone thinks Naim can compete with the engineering efforts of Apple or Samsung, then they are living on an entirely different solar system to me.

Maybe they don"t have to. Although why Naim did not bring a basic streamer is beyond Any logic to me.

When I was a kid I was underemployed and peripatetic. My budget and living arrangements ruled where my audio money went and what I had went into portable and car audio because those were my personal spaces. On a purely dollar-for-sound-quality basis, my money went farther in portable and car audio. As I got older and could have a "listening room" and the cash to outfit it, my audio predilections shifted.

I think Naim should be flat out focusing on the portable and car markets. Naim's sound is the sound of young people. If Naim indeed grew from a young Vereker's dissatisfaction with the euphonic, bloated audio sound of the 70s, then Naim needs to check where it is now and where the young people are. Naim, to me, is about rhythm and buoyancy and those are youthful attributes. Young people can hear treble just fine and they have no need of soundstage under headphones or in cars or in bars. They need the pulse and heartbeat of music. Put your sound in a young person's head and it will stick there as a nice association to be called upon later when that young person has become an affluent middleager looking to outfit their home.

Focal is already a huge and influential presence in the car audio segment and now, merged with Naim, has an opportunity to use Naim's source and amp building chops to bring the same riveting, rhythmic experience to car audio. They should do it, no question in my mind. Can't you just picture the matte black chassis and the green glow on the dashboard, the grippy Naim sound beating along in the car with you? Can't you picture the bright green Naim logo pulsing with the killer sound coming out of the Naim green Civic Type R at SEMA with a crowd drawn around it? Why not?

As for competing with Apple and Samsung, anyone can do it, Naim certainly can. Bose did it and became huge. Beats did it and Apple had to buy Beats. Young people like different. It sets them apart. They like uniqueness and exclusivity and engaging sound quality every bit as much as adults, if not more so. You just need to get your product into where they look for products. Hiding in boutique shops in frou-frou places far away with no way to demo anything will not get you into the young person's consciousness.

Yeah but you can't be everything to everyone at the same time. So retaining your core market and going for the flashy young car audio can be a no-no

Gave a Muso to my Nephew (17) some time ago only to discover he still listen to music on cheap no name computer speakers. I don" t think the younger people are atracted to something like a Muso. Or even something like a better sound.

Agreed, it can be a huge no-no if you go into another segment with crap, but I don't think Naim would make crap and put their name on it. That's what ruined Luxman in the 80s. Apple keeps tight control on its name and licensing, right down to application standards and can sell phones at twice the price of everyone else's to very young people, which would indicate that young people will reach when consistent excellence is involved. Focal and Dynaudio are both blue chips in the flashy car market yet both can turn around and sell megadollar home speakers to audiophiles. JL did it the other way around, they brought their automotive subwoofer competence to the home arena and created a nice product line. Now, people like me, that grew up using their car audio subs as core components in their systems and always wished they'd take their strengths into the home market, can buy a JL Fathom for their house. In my case, I did so without hesitation, trusting that the brand would hew to its values and I was not disappointed. Isn't that what you want your core market to be? The people that know your name, trust the brand to deliver what it always delivers and keep coming back? The connection I think is consistent excellence no matter the price point, no matter the application. Somehow, I think that is one of Naim's strengths.

So far, every piece of Naim gear that has come into my house has been musically compelling. I saw a well used Nait 5i for sale, it reminded me of hearing a Nait 2 many years ago, so I bought it, loved it and still have it. I then moved up to the XS which I also love and still have. I then moved up to the SN2 which I love and listen to daily. I would love to end up at separates somewhere down the line if the audio gods keep smiling, but I'd be content to end my climb at any of these pieces. I keep climbing the ladder because I've come to trust the brand to deliver a sound I want to hear. Isn't that the core market? If so, I'd also like to hear it in the car and on the go. For example, I bought a pair of B&W MM-1 computer speakers for traveling. Surprisingly good for what they are, but God I wish I had some Naim sound to travel with!

Looks to me like a MiniMu-so

On the subject of what course Naim should (?) pursue, from the viewpoint of someone wanting the best quality music reproduction, quite simply is is best quality achieve able, at as low a price as possible, using advances in technology both to improve quality and lower price. Given the effective trade-off between price and quality, the practicality of this, for sufficient of us to be able to afford, is a range of products going up the scales of both price and quality.

The question there, is how far down Naim should go to tempt people on to the ladder, or get their name known. Provided it doesn't compromise what is available at and towards the upper end, and that buyers are aware what they're buying, there is no reason why that shouldn't extend down to the Muso etc. Audiophile concern would only be legitimate if the consequence were to be an abandoning of the upper levels. And at present, there seems to be no evidence of that, so surely anything that provides Naim with more of a mass income stream should is to be welcomed

As for the buying habits of different generations, the reality has always been that top end HiFi is expensive, and so less affordable by those of lesser disposable income, which as a generalisation means it tends to be the older generations that have the best gear. The main difference in recent years that is evident to me is a dumbing down of quality (and not just in music), combined with increasing disposability of the music - fewer people than ever seem to be interested in listening to music from several years earlier, though there are certainly exceptions to that.

This disposability and general limited quality is combined with a need for instant gratification - everything has to be had now - and the notion of saving up,for a system that might sound wonderful but can't be afforded today, and is only usable in a static location, makes it fall out of interest until people have 'settled down', this being another factor in making HiFi the province of the older generations.

And whilst some aspects of this have developedover the years, maybe become more extreme, fundamentally I don't see a real difference from 45 years ago, when I made my first HiFi system, but was unique among my friends in having even the interest in so doing: mainstream teenagers had no interest in HiFi, or indeed the quality of music reproduction, and while universally my friends expressed their astonishment when they heard my system, none were inspired to follow suit- though some said things like "oh, my dad's got a HiFi a bit like that". 

Fred, not what our research tells us, I am sure many teenagers would be delighted to receive  a mu-so as a gift - Maybe your nephew just has other preferences.

My youngest daughter and son-in-law are with us for Xmas. They are both architects specialising in London based -home improvements in the region of £5-10m. This usually includes a home theater room and associated equipment.

I also have a recreational student who does "quite well" (*) out of domestic home entertainment systems.

I'll consolidate their market knowledge and post it in the next 24 hours.

(*) = a bloody fortune !

Paul Stephenson posted:

Fred, not what our research tells us, I am sure many teenagers would be delighted to receive  a mu-so as a gift - Maybe your nephew just has other preferences.

My son is in his twenties and loves his Mu-so, as do his mates when it's time to party.

My experience of architects is they are interested in the visual, not the aural, and whilst in the TV Programmes I've seen showing expensive property developments cinema rooms abound, HiFi tends to feature very little, and where it appears at all the emphasis visually seems to be on minimalism, in terms of visual impact.  And many have very obviously 'echoey' with no view to acoustic treatment.

It'll be interesting to see if Don's distilled 'market knowledge' accords with this.

I think the muso is a clever move by name and has started me on the upgrade route. In a year I have gone from the muso and now moved to a unitiqute 2. Will see where this takes me.

Also I think Naim have done a good job in creating a product that is easy to use and accessible to people who want to get things up and running with minimum fuss. Equally contrary to a lot of people I think the app is very good even my girlfriend uses it and doesn't complain.

Most of the negative comments on the forum come from people who fear naim changing. As a late arrival to Naim I think there is room for quality lifestyle products like the Muso and also their aspirational ranges.

Thanks

Sam

Innocent Bystander posted:

My experience of architects is they are interested in the visual, not the aural, and whilst in the TV Programmes I've seen showing expensive property developments cinema rooms abound, HiFi tends to feature very little, and where it appears at all the emphasis visually seems to be on minimalism, in terms of visual impact.  And many have very obviously 'echoey' with no view to acoustic treatment.

It'll be interesting to see if Don's distilled 'market knowledge' accords with this.

Ummm...I'm an architect - a discipline embracing all the senses in my view.

I've not had any clients interested in installing a decent replay system though they happily spend thousands on automated lighting, blinds etc.

G