New S-400 (SN2 NDX/NDAC XPS2)

Hungryhalibut posted:

Or you can do as I did and get some Super Lumina speaker cables. They have proved to be transformational in my system, and have made an absolutely massive improvement; one that makes them seem very reasonably priced, which is not something I ever thought I'd hear myself saying. 

Not something I thought I'd hear you say either, Nigel.  Pleased you learn you're impressed with the SL cables.   

Congratulations Graeme, enjoy the S-400! Best, nbpf

Thanks NBPF.

G

Congrats Graeme, for your new speakers. i think you have the same finish i do...

they look really classy in this finish, don't they?

as i said many times, speakers and room integration bring far more earthshaking differences than changes in electronics or cables... who would have thought that one would prefer the S400 instead of S600?

as for the rest of the setup, when bought mine, i thought that the S400 favored the pre+power combos rather than all-in-ones or source+integrated... but at that time, the speakers weren't fully burned in, for sure...

i might "snitch" an NDX or ND5xs and SN2 in those turning of year's holidays, and see in my own home and after the burning in has passed how they fare against my own 172/200DR...

that's one thing with Naim... you always find something to do, something to test and try at home...

but...anyways, long story short, enjoy your pair!

Thanks Catalinmetal & Merry Christmas to you to.

Graeme

Very intersting post! Thanks for sharing.

My old speakers are up for an upgrade soon. Given our components are similar I will request an extended home demo for the S-400s

As we say in Poland: Wesołych Świąt!!!

Merry Christmas to you too Adam.

Graeme

Congrats Graeme! As Gary says above, when it comes to speakers, there's just no substitute for trying them at home. Glad to hear your gamble paid off.

I am in my 4th year of Ovator 400 ownership, and have still not found anything I enjoy more.

Also, seems to me there's a bit more 400 love on the forum of late. A very good and well deserved thing IMO!

Merry Christmas!

Hook

Thanks Hook...the new SBL...and a very Merry Christmas to you too.

Best

Graeme

Congratulation on your purchase, like you I too bought myself a pair of S400 for christmas.  What a pair of truly remarkable speakers they are too...  The vocals really do impress much better than my old Proac's and the first time I have gone all Naim, can wait for them to really warm up.  

Enjoy and Merry Christmas

Thanks Jimbo78. You enjoy yours too and Merry Christmas.

Graeme

I agree Hook, much more S400 feedback and very positive, starting to make me feel if I was a little bit foolish for moving mine on. Still it is good to go elsewhere and see what you may have been missing and try out new things.  Wondering if my journey brings me back to S400 later on?

Some S600 are going at a good price at the moment.... :-)

Dan43 posted:

I agree Hook, much more S400 feedback and very positive, starting to make me feel if I was a little bit foolish for moving mine on. Still it is good to go elsewhere and see what you may have been missing and try out new things.  Wondering if my journey brings me back to S400 later on?

Some S600 are going at a good price at the moment.... :-)

S600 quite a different speaker Dan43...

G

GraemeH posted:

Dan43 posted:

I agree Hook, much more S400 feedback and very positive, starting to make me feel if I was a little bit foolish for moving mine on. Still it is good to go elsewhere and see what you may have been missing and try out new things.  Wondering if my journey brings me back to S400 later on?

Some S600 are going at a good price at the moment.... :-)

S600 quite a different speaker Dan43...

G

Yes thanks Graeme I did read your posts further up, interesting that you found those results, goes to prove room is so important too. I tried LS50s when they first came out and they were just terrible in my room, really awful, and they are not bad speakers.

I found the S400 performed best (as in low/mids/high better balanced and joined up) once I improved the electronics considerably.

Thats the only fly in the S400 ointment for me that the speaker reacted proportionately to the higher spec source/amp, and didn't perform nearly the same when they were removed (meaning same joined up performance but maybe not as well staged for example) with the lesser electronics, they, for me, really need properly feeding to extract the best out of them.

Also seem best suited to more acoustic derived material where the high frequency response was close to Martin Logan levels, so they really shine, again for me, on that type of music and the vocals, they can really soar.

I've gone now for a more bass biased delivery with Focal, but the positive notices here are making me think....

I bought the S-400 a long time ago....never regretted a cent...superb fit to my HDX/SN2/dps2-system....

Wonderful speakers...congratulations!!!!

Thanks Musiclover!

Graeme

Dan43 posted:

GraemeH posted:

Dan43 posted:

I agree Hook, much more S400 feedback and very positive, starting to make me feel if I was a little bit foolish for moving mine on. Still it is good to go elsewhere and see what you may have been missing and try out new things.  Wondering if my journey brings me back to S400 later on?

Some S600 are going at a good price at the moment.... :-)

S600 quite a different speaker Dan43...

G

Yes thanks Graeme I did read your posts further up, interesting that you found those results, goes to prove room is so important too. I tried LS50s when they first came out and they were just terrible in my room, really awful, and they are not bad speakers.

I found the S400 performed best (as in low/mids/high better balanced and joined up) once I improved the electronics considerably.

Thats the only fly in the S400 ointment for me that the speaker reacted proportionately to the higher spec source/amp, and didn't perform nearly the same when they were removed (meaning same joined up performance but maybe not as well staged for example) with the lesser electronics, they, for me, really need properly feeding to extract the best out of them.

Also seem best suited to more acoustic derived material where the high frequency response was close to Martin Logan levels, so they really shine, again for me, on that type of music and the vocals, they can really soar.

I've gone now for a more bass biased delivery with Focal, but the positive notices here are making me think....

 

 

What works for some others may not work for you, Dan. Speakers are hugely subjective and very room dependent.   If you felt the Aria 926s did some things that pleased you that the 400s didn't - and Focals certainly boogie - don't start doubting your decision.  Just enjoy your Arias while Graeme enjoys his newly acquired 400s. 

Mike

Very good advice Mike!  Other than the occassional congrats to others who hear the 400s as I do, I've given up on the concept of "fighting my corner".  All of our ears and brains and rooms are different, so the only important thing is finding (and settling long-term) on speakers that sound good to the owner. Make and model are really not that important IMO. There are tons of great speaker options, and at all price points.

ATB.

Hook

Mike and Hook, great points both thank you and very true, I was after a new sound and presentation and with Focal I have that, and very pleasing it is too. S400s were excellent, now its onto new speakers and a new sound.

They really are the most subjective part of the system. 

A marginal observation. Years ago, after a long home demo of a pair of run-in, rosewood pair that belonged to the dealer (and that I had heard several times, over months), I bought a brand new pair of S-400s in zebrano finish.

Out of the box they sounded shut-in, congested, a bit 'dark' and I was strongly advised to face a patient and long run-in time. The reasons why I didn't, and subsequently sold the S-400s, are not relevant here and have nothing to do with how highly I still consider the speakers.

Lately, the same dealer has bought a new pair of rosewood S-400s, and both he and I found, with clear certainty, that out of the box they sound rather less congested and shut it, they are in fact brilliant, open and rather luminous in presentation, with occasional deep bass. They are definitely different, to my ears, from what I remembered, and he agrees.

So either S-400s are sensitive to production runs, and samples can differ audibly from one another, or Naim has re-voiced them a little, which would be my guess... 

Massimo - Very interesting. The differences you describe between the models of S-400 mirrors the difference I hear between the S-600 (I had for a year) and the S-400 I am enjoying now.

G

Massimo Bertola posted:

A marginal observation. Years ago, after a long home demo of a pair of run-in, rosewood pair that belonged to the dealer (and that I had heard several times, over months), I bought a brand new pair of S-400s in zebrano finish.

Out of the box they sounded shut-in, congested, a bit 'dark' and I was strongly advised to face a patient and long run-in time. The reasons why I didn't, and subsequently sold the S-400s, are not relevant here and have nothing to do with how highly I still consider the speakers.

Lately, the same dealer has bought a new pair of rosewood S-400s, and both he and I found, with clear certainty, that out of the box they sound rather less congested and shut it, they are in fact brilliant, open and rather luminous in presentation, with occasional deep bass. They are definitely different, to my ears, from what I remembered, and he agrees.

So either S-400s are sensitive to production runs, and samples can differ audibly from one another, or Naim has re-voiced them a little, which would be my guess... 

I have an earlier (mid 2011) production pairs of s400, and have really enjoyed them over the last few years.

Recently I went to my dealer and demoed a few Proacs against the s400 in the store. The dealer's pair was very new, judging by the serial number, was manufactured in early 2015. To my ears at least, the dealer's s400 sounded almost identical to my own pair at home. There were some small differences, but I personally thought it was more to do with room acoustics. 

GraemeH posted:

Massimo - Very interesting. The differences you describe between the models of S-400 mirrors the difference I hear between the S-600 (I had for a year) and the S-400 I am enjoying now.

G

 

I very much suspect that Massimo's observations are down to the passage of time. I used to have the same speakers I have now, about eight years ago. When getting them again, I thought 'blimey, these are good, much better than before' but are they really? They are certainly set up better this time, and further apart than before, but I suspect they are just the same. 

It's very interesting how open people are to suggestion - if others suggest that your speakers are not that great, or that others are better, you can start to doubt your own choices. 

I have always liked the look of the 400, but I couldn't cope with the depth of them coupled with the 10" or so behind them - they would be too dominant. 

But when Dan caves in and gets some (!!) I'll be able to pop round and see how his system compares to mine. 

Don't underestimate sample variations. I now have a Supernait 2 that is better than a previous one. Both were roughly the same age and i had the opportunity to compare the two, before selling my original one without loss.

Regarding S400, i had a brand new pair early on in the production which i always thought were quite excellent, but when the S600 went in, from a 2 year older production, i didn't really enjoy them. I am not entirely convinced it is just about changes in production run, as much as just not liking the S600 as a speaker, the room interaction, partnering equipment, sample variation and set up. Additionally there is expectation bias and possibly run in to factor also.

All these factors highlight one thing very clearly, that when a speaker just works from the off, one stands a far better chance of a very long happy relationship. If one has to mess around, constantly trying different positions, cables, amps, stands etc, then there is always the chance you are convincing yourself things are getting 'much' better, when in reality it is just getting 'less' bad.

I've run the S-400 with a great variety of genres through them now & from 'Classic FM' to Led Zeppelin and I can stand by my 'bloody marvellous!' first impressions. All nicely levelled on spike shoes now and in the same position I had from the off.

They just work beautifully!

G