Today I compared the NDX/SN2, 272/250DR and NDX/282/HcapDR/snapsc/250DR

Very interesting :-) Thanks. 

Ovator S400? I hope you will be blown away like I was a couple of years ago. Very nice with the SN2/NDX. Keep us updated :-) 

You need to remember that your 282 based option costs £5,000 or so more than the others, so it's almost bound to be better. Perhaps you should also try adding an XPS DR and Hicap DR to your existing setup and see how that compares. It's also worth noting that an XPS lifts the 272/250 to an altogether different level, but it would still be £2,000 less than the 282 based system. I would suggest that in a 282/250 setup the NDX really needs a power supply in order to give a balanced system. 

Before going further, it's worth reflecting on your attitude to box count, wiring etc and the extent you want the Hifi to impact on your living room. If you go the 282 route and add an XPS to the NDX then that's six boxes; do you want that?

Hungryhalibut posted:

You need to remember that your 282 based option costs £5,000 or so more than the others, so it's almost bound to be better. Perhaps you should also try adding an XPS DR and Hicap DR to your existing setup and see how that compares. It's also worth noting that an XPS lifts the 272/250 to an altogether different level, but it would still be £2,000 less than the 282 based system. I would suggest that in a 282/250 setup the NDX really needs a power supply in order to give a balanced system. 

Before going further, it's worth reflecting on your attitude to box count, wiring etc and the extent you want the Hifi to impact on your living room. If you go the 282 route and add an XPS to the NDX then that's six boxes; do you want that?

I agree the 282 route price and box count can go up considerably  if I am not careful. 272/250 is indeed a very interesting setup and could be an end game after adding in a XPS provided one can be happy with the dac in the the 272 for the next couple of years..

kaydee6 posted:

.......... 272/250 is indeed a very interesting setup and could be an end game after adding in a XPS provided one can be happy with the dac in the the 272 for the next couple of years..

For as long as that!

C.

I'd definitely try adding an XPS to your amp as a first step. The 272/250 is very good, and the 250DR is superb and certainly better than the amp in the SN2, but the NDX, XPS and SN2 will very likely be better in other ways. 

I bought my amp without hearing it. I got it because it can be maxed out with only one power supply, has only two mains leads and cannot use a hiline. I simply couldn't be bothered with detailed comparisons against the NDX and SN2, which is the obvious alternative. Both options are very good indeed. 

Or even a 555DR/used 555 non DR to 272 could give it more of a lift :-)

Kaydee6 outside the electronics /source, great to read your thoughts thank you, what was your impression of the Sopra No2 please, really keen on trying these on my 272/250 system early 2016 with SL SC.

What a dilemma!   

Dan43 posted:

Or even a 555DR/used 555 non DR to 272 could give it more of a lift :-)

Kaydee6 outside the electronics /source, great to read your thoughts thank you, what was your impression of the Sopra No2 please, really keen on trying these on my 272/250 system early 2016 with SL SC.

Beautiful speakers both the SQ and looks. Very nice highs, sparkly but not harsh.

The bass goes low, full and room filling. Good leading edge and fast. I think naim and the focal sopra no2. is a good match.

I cannot get the highs and lows on the SHL5 even with turning up the volume on the SN2 @ home. Damn..

Dealers asked me if I'm interested, I am when my finance is ready.  

The 272/250DR have no problem driving it. I was listening at volume level 44-46 and it was pretty loud but controlled. I think you will like the speakers.

The Strat (Fender) posted:

What a dilemma!   

First World problem...

I must be one of the few people on here that doesn't like the Sopras, both in looks and sound.

I still find the idea of spending so much on speakers, to use with a midrange system, a bit weird. My local dealer doesn't deal with stuff that high up the range, so I'm unlikely to encounter them. Anyway, I need speakers that need to go against the wall as my room is too small. 

Its an interesting dilemma, the dealer at the Sopra No2 demo was very taken with 250DR and was enthusing on a change in approach to putting expensive speakers on mid-range electronics as, in his view, the mid-range had really raised the bar on VFM. He is recommending this approach to his high value long term customers too as greater (in his view) overall value approach.

Sopra No2 are very expensive, I have come from DB1i up to S400 to now sideways to Aria 926, but was very taken with Sopra No2 on that demo.

I wish to settle on a system that gives me 3-5 years + of unupgrade-itis affected use and joy, one way of looking at it could be Sopra No2 are a long term use item while you may change into say new NAIM electronics down the line, instead of perhaps the other way round previously (NAP300, 552 long term but changing your speaker more regularly)

I'm keen to try them out, but would hope they lasted a good few years if purchased, and then buy NDS 2 or Statement streamer in 3-5 years time (to catch up)  .....  :-) But to support a potential NDS 2 properly would require much better support with pre/amp purchasing to get the best out of it.

But for the hear and now, 272/250DR with 926s (or No2 if I get the itch) with SL SC and maybe a Melco is as far as I feel I would want to go. But I reserve the right to change my mind, naturally :-)

Well the 250 have no problem driving the sopra no 2, does not feel mid range at all. I can tell you that...

kaydee6 posted:

Dan43 posted:

Or even a 555DR/used 555 non DR to 272 could give it more of a lift :-)

Kaydee6 outside the electronics /source, great to read your thoughts thank you, what was your impression of the Sopra No2 please, really keen on trying these on my 272/250 system early 2016 with SL SC.

Beautiful speakers both the SQ and looks. Very nice highs, sparkly but not harsh.

The bass goes low, full and room filling. Good leading edge and fast. I think naim and the focal sopra no2. is a good match.

I cannot get the highs and lows on the SHL5 even with turning up the volume on the SN2 @ home. Damn..

Dealers asked me if I'm interested, I am when my finance is ready.  

The 272/250DR have no problem driving it. I was listening at volume level 44-46 and it was pretty loud but controlled. I think you will like the speakers.

Need to test with my music at the dealer then at home, did you find the high frequency response and vocal presentation then like a more rounded and less spangly Martin Logan type presentation.

Did the sound stage feel broad and fill the room, or more direct to the listener.

Only a couple of times have I felt/heard the music live with me in the room rather than be delivered outwards. Yes need to test :-) Thanks for the thoughts. Are you buying or leaving it for later next year, when hopefully dealer prices also soften a little bit.

I've got a 250DR and know how good it is. My speakers cost me £2,200 a few months ago, which is quite enough for me! 

Dan43 posted:

kaydee6 posted:

Dan43 posted:

Or even a 555DR/used 555 non DR to 272 could give it more of a lift :-)

Kaydee6 outside the electronics /source, great to read your thoughts thank you, what was your impression of the Sopra No2 please, really keen on trying these on my 272/250 system early 2016 with SL SC.

Beautiful speakers both the SQ and looks. Very nice highs, sparkly but not harsh.

The bass goes low, full and room filling. Good leading edge and fast. I think naim and the focal sopra no2. is a good match.

I cannot get the highs and lows on the SHL5 even with turning up the volume on the SN2 @ home. Damn..

Dealers asked me if I'm interested, I am when my finance is ready.  

The 272/250DR have no problem driving it. I was listening at volume level 44-46 and it was pretty loud but controlled. I think you will like the speakers.

Need to test with my music at the dealer then at home, did you find the high frequency response and vocal presentation then like a more rounded and less spangly Martin Logan type presentation.

Did the sound stage feel broad and fill the room, or more direct to the listener.

Only a couple of times have I felt/heard the music live with me in the room rather than be delivered outwards. Yes need to test :-) Thanks for the thoughts. Are you buying or leaving it for later next year, when hopefully dealer prices also soften a little bit.

I brought my music on a thumb drive to test the systems.

Yes, music is more of a broad and room filling than direct.

Not likely getting it next year. Need to check out the cheaper option like the S400?

Hungryhalibut posted:

I've got a 250DR and know how good it is. My speakers cost me £2,200 a few months ago, which is quite enough for me! 

In fact, the SN2 was driving the sopra no 2 pretty well.

I commented this to the dealer and he told me SN2 is able to drive this speaker, no issues. Just that the SN2 presentation is different.

Dan43 posted:

kaydee6 posted:

Dan43 posted:

Or even a 555DR/used 555 non DR to 272 could give it more of a lift :-)

Kaydee6 outside the electronics /source, great to read your thoughts thank you, what was your impression of the Sopra No2 please, really keen on trying these on my 272/250 system early 2016 with SL SC.

Beautiful speakers both the SQ and looks. Very nice highs, sparkly but not harsh.

The bass goes low, full and room filling. Good leading edge and fast. I think naim and the focal sopra no2. is a good match.

I cannot get the highs and lows on the SHL5 even with turning up the volume on the SN2 @ home. Damn..

Dealers asked me if I'm interested, I am when my finance is ready.  

The 272/250DR have no problem driving it. I was listening at volume level 44-46 and it was pretty loud but controlled. I think you will like the speakers.

Need to test with my music at the dealer then at home, did you find the high frequency response and vocal presentation then like a more rounded and less spangly Martin Logan type presentation.

Did the sound stage feel broad and fill the room, or more direct to the listener.

Only a couple of times have I felt/heard the music live with me in the room rather than be delivered outwards. Yes need to test :-) Thanks for the thoughts. Are you buying or leaving it for later next year, when hopefully dealer prices also soften a little bit.

Afternoon Dan

Personally, it sounds as if you are chasing something that you're not quite sure of yet. You've just got a whole new load of kit and are trying to get it working with your space, as well as run it in. I'd give it at least 6 months now so that you can articulate to yourself and your dealer exactly what it is you feel you are missing after this period. It appears you have a number of upgrade options assuming you'll keep the 272/250DR heart of the system.

If you are potentially aiming at a £10k pair of speakers you'll want to have tried/bought the SL and XPS-DR first I'd have thought, as they'll give you the base from which to properly assess the Sopra's. Of course, all this stuff will have to have had time to run in first otherwise you're still going to be unsure when you get the Sopra's home.

The joy of upgrading is that it needs time spent with a previous system to fully appreciate the changes you've won - without this you'll not get the full benefits IMHO.

Have fun getting it all to work together!

Hi Penarth,

Thanks, I see what you mean and it may come across  like that, I think I am writing down at least couple or one years worth of thinking and upgrading into one short time frame in these posts, it is not quite the speed I intend to take, the finances will dictate that.

My intention is to maximise the 272/250DR but also I want to learn and understand what has improved otherwise the upgrade is somewhat lost on me, hence going back a step in testing older speaker cable and power leads and even older speakers so I can sense where the improvements lie.

I am looking at smaller increases in kit, and will more than likely try SL SC first, next year. NACA5 at the moment is more than enough.

Its a journey I am happy to take my time over, perhaps I am vocalising too much and too many thoughts giving the impression I am looking to do all this asap, but I am aiming for Sopra No2 home demo late second half of 2016, but will go to dealers once every month or two and see what I can learn in those visits before then, and hopefully see the price drop a little by then or ex-demo hit the market in that time.

I still think that an XPS DR should be the first thing you look at.

Hungryhalibut posted:

I still think that an XPS DR should be the first thing you look at.

:-) This I might leave for a bit, bit of a daft one but has anyone tried 555DR or non-DR on 272 as yet?

Listened to the Sopra 2's a couple of days back at the local dealers...

HDX into NDS - 555PS, into 552 - 500..

the sound was initially very impressive..very detailed, dynamic, open sound, good bass, good mid...however, after around 15-20 mins the HF got the better of my lugs.....too much for me...fatiguing to listen to..

and they looked soooo good...in white I could have been tempted...

for me, not to be....the SL2's stay..

enjoy

Hurrah! Those penguins are hard to beat. 

ameden posted:

Listened to the Sopra 2's a couple of days back at the local dealers...

HDX into NDS - 555PS, into 552 - 500..

the sound was initially very impressive..very detailed, dynamic, open sound, good bass, good mid...however, after around 15-20 mins the HF got the better of my lugs.....too much for me...fatiguing to listen to..

and they looked soooo good...in white I could have been tempted...

for me, not to be....the SL2's stay..

 

enjoy

 

I tried Martin Logans and had the same results.

I think I am looking for S400s with Focal bass response, maybe a Sopra No2/400 combo...

Is NAIM making an Ovator/Focal combo ?

I'd certainly not entertain Sopra's as SL2 replacements.