new 300DR vs 500 (non DR)

I expect that the general consensus will still place a non DR 500 in front of a DR'd  300 as it's quite a different animal.  I'd also not worry too much about running a 252 instead of a 552 , remember that Naim ran the 500 with a 52 before the 552 was fully developed.  Obviously a 552 will bring far more resolution (plus a lot more) to the party, and it is the perfect match for the 500 but it is undoubtedly an expensive combination.

I also bet you will find that many people using the 552/500 combination would relinquish a 500 before their 552?

I personally use a 52 with a 500 but that's partly because my DBL's are quite demanding of the power amp stage and it gives me a nice balance in my upgrade strategy. I also know that at some point I will eventuly find a pre-used 552 at the right sort of price and I will make that final step.

On your system I think you'd appreciate what a 500 can do - plus there's a few about at quite reasonable prices. I also think you might be driven to the same conclusion as me and eventuly have both!

I am a bit confused : Richard Dane has demonstrated 552/150 with 152/500 and found the 552/150 a lot better.

So how much is the contribution of the 500 then relative to 552?

Also even though Naim say the older 500 is better than newer 300DR, the DR power amps are quite different beasts as they use  different  regulation and certainly superior 009 transistors.

In any case, just for fun, soon I will compare a 250DR to an older 500 to see what exactly these differences are. Of course I certaintly don't expect the 250 DR to beat a 500, of course, but rather to hear the differences between them.

I'd say that it's absolutely not worth using a 500 with a 252. It would be so much better using a 552 with a 250DR. If you are never going to get a 552, I'd go with the 300DR, which goes very nicely with the 252. If also goes even more nicely with the 552, should you ever change your mind. 

as usual, HH is spot on correct. I would upgrade to 300 DR, or upgrade even to 250DR and call it a day, and listen to music and enjoy the system 

Particularly with S400 which sound good even with NAP 200 !

I don't disagree but in today's world a 252 and 300DR new are more or less the same price as a 552 and 500 second hand, so I know where my money would go.

analogmusic posted:

I am a bit confused : Richard Dane has demonstrated 552/150 with 152/500 and found the 552/150 a lot better.

So how much is the contribution of the 500 then relative to 552?

Also even though Naim say the older 500 is better than newer 300DR, the DR power amps are quite different beasts as they use  different  regulation and certainly superior 009 transistors.

In any case, just for fun, soon I will compare a 250DR to an older 500 to see what exactly these differences are. Of course I certaintly don't expect the 250 DR to beat a 500, of course, but rather to hear the differences between them.

 

 

A very good analogy and it works at this level of 'skewed' kit. However the lines become less clear as you begin to align things. I listened to a 252 and 135's and much preferred the 52 and 500 combination in my system. I also expect that if I'd listened to a 552 with 135's I'd have definitely preffered that combination - although I will say that my 135's start to run out of steam just as you get realistic listening levels where the 500 doesn't.

Unfortunately 552 are very rare beasts in the second hand market and I can't afford new one, so I settled on what I thought was the best balanced option for the time being and spend money on music whilst waiting patiently for one to appear!

Thanks. I think I have a much better idea what I should do now.

This all started as I was contemplating what I should do with my 250 as it is 10 years old. Should I just recap / DR or upgrade to 300DR. Then the used 500 option came along.

I did consider the fact that I am using the S400. Surprisingly it works well in my small room (which should be there for the next 3 to 4 years), so I most likely won't change it. And the S400 doesn't sound to me like a speaker that is very demanding on the power amp.

Maybe just trading in the 250 for a 250DR is the best way forward.. And saving up my funds for other opportunities that comes along.

I have in the last month upgraded from a 250 (2012 vintage) to a 250DR and was very pleased with the improvements. I have never heard a 300, 300DR or 500 - but had I purchased one of these and it delivered what the 250DR gave me I would  still have been happy.  Ultimately I am sure they must be 'better' but I would recommend you have a demo of a 250DR.

I used to own a 300 and nowadays have a 250DR. The new 250 is a different beast from the .2 version, which I never really got on with. I'd say that the 250DR is far closer to a 300 than to the 250.2. My 250 works wonderfully with SL2s and I'm sure would be equally as good with the 400s. You'll certainly get a massive improvement over the 250.2. With the money 'saved' not getting the 500 you could get some SL speaker leads....

silklee posted:

the S400 doesn't sound to me like a speaker that is very demanding on the power amp

The 300 can handle various speakers better than the 250, but IMHO that is not the main point of the 300. It is a really transparent, "live" sounding, well balanced etc amazing power amp, and is just a perfect match with the 252. Having had the 252/300 for a few years, I would have absolutely no interest in the 250DR or a 500 for my system, no matter what "special offers" would be available.

The 300DR is surely an improvement, if funds permit. But you could also upgrade later from a non-DR 300.

In my opinion, Naim components that were designed to be the very best, regardless of time, still maintain something magical beyond hi-fi that is elusive and special.  Eg: 72, 52, 255, 500, CDS1,  NAT 01, and DBLs. Many times the newer components just lack the magic.  

However do factor in the 500 servicing costs - not cheep!

That said I have not heard the 300 DR!

Paul

Might be worth checking the service costs on a 500 and factor that into your thinking. The 300 dr would be good for 10years plus but the 500 may well be close to needing a service. 

i dont really have experince in the 500 range but I do find the 252/300 has a certain synergy that works well. I plan to explore the 300DR upgrade in my system, reviews from friends /dealer have been very encouraging. 

I guess if the price is right you could pass on with limited loss if it didn't float your boat. That said given the expense I would urge you to find a supportive dealer and do a demo.

good luck

Gary