Compresssion versus Art / BBC radio 4

It is available on listen again and I will do so this afternoon. Thanks for highlighting this programme.

I heard it this morning. Quite interesting but made a mistake of associating good sound with expensive hifi and a treated room. Good sound can be had for £500, second hand record player, Nait, speakers, that is proper hi-end. 

And a link:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06tvgp1

I listened to this earlier on the Radio iPlayer as a result of the prompt. Interestingly to me I thought the compressed pop music efforts sounded more like what pop music should sound like! A bit rough and ready, but then I grew up in the 1960s when pop music was even rougher and more ready!

As a side note, compression has been used on classical music recordings since the advent of electrical recording in the mid-1920s and certain does no harm. Apart from anything else, concert halls tend to have a much quiet ambient quietude than the home environment, and listening to a completely uncompressed recording of classical music on a larger scale than a string quartet at home would present real challenges in the quietest music. 

I rather like the ultra-compressed Metalica track that they produced as an example of the “evil” of compression. The less processed version seemed rather anaemic to me, and far from characteristic of what I must assume was the aim of Metalica in approving the compressed and distorted issued recording! “Smoking!" What a lovely description!

Anyway, an interesting programme. Thanks for the heads-up!

ATB from George

It's well worth exploring Ian Shepherd's productionadvice website (he features in the programme) - some very interesting insights into mastering techniques.

Listened to this morning. I could not disagree more with George. Compression in all its guises is so wrong and on the Metallica track sounded abominable compared to the less compressed version; but I might tend to the view that there are certain things one should not do, like 'listen to Metallica without ear muffs' (to plagiarise 007). I thought the presenter's colleague sounded both inarticulate and confused on the matter of what compression in its two major guises (dynamic compression and information - bit density - compression) meant. Trotted out the trite answers of all of those who wish to condemn high quality sound as the preserve of a few audiophiles. The professional musicians had a far wider view and perspective on sound quality. I was intrigued that one member of the orchestra said he had a system in his car that could compress the dynamic range. 

Thanks for the link - a very interesting programme, although most of the ideas have been well rehearsed on this forum.

The most telling comment made IMHO was that it was stated hardly anyone listens to music in a concentrated way any more. That's probably not true for most on here but is it true for the population as a whole? I do notice at live gigs that people are more prone to talk away to each to the point where you wonder why they bothered to attend. (puts on grumpy old man hat) Young people are the worst offenders. 

I agree with George, (dynamic) compression in various forms has been part of recorded music for 60 years plus.. and when done properly can add to the musical aesthetic that is recorded music, Vocals are almost always compressed - and to hear uncompressed vocals in a recording is  rare.. most modern vocal styles - such as singing close to the microphone can only work effectively with compression.

To me the aim is to minimise the corruption of the audio from its master to the end playout in a top performing audio playout system.

Simon

The most telling comment made IMHO was that it was stated hardly anyone listens to music in a concentrated way any more. That's probably not true for most on here but is it true for the population as a whole? 

IMO it is true. There are undoubtedly a number of factors to explain this including, I believe, the quite simple explanation that there are now far more things on which people can spend their hard earned (or borrowed) cash. Back in the 1970's, youth culture was expressed through fashion and music; the right LP's were effectively "tribal" artefacts that displayed one's taste in music (blues and "underground" in my case) and were the basis of what one discussed with others from the same tribe.  My discretionary income went on LP's, gigs and clothes.  The advent of video games and mobile phones changed all of this; to a large extent music has now become something akin to fast food that is consumed with other apps on smartphones, increasingly through streaming services.  FME, the ultimate irony is that with contemporary approaches to recording (with sampling and auto-tune etc) and digital compression the more one concentrates on music on high quality playback equipment the worse it sounds!

Regarding concentrated listening.. I'm not sure.. With my family I'd say me, my son and his girlfriend do listen to music in a concentrated way and are musically aware .. CDs are purchased (albeit apart from me in very limited quantities) and downloads obtained. They both have just gone 18.

My wife, my daughter and her boyfriend are more causal music listeners, I don't think my daughter has ever bought a CD album but has loads of lossy downloads..

So if my family is anything to go by it's a 50% split.. 

Simon

Re concentrated listening:   I have FM or iRadio playing most of the day when in the house,  its not really listening as such as I'm doing other things most of the time.   When I do sit & listen its usually NAS based local streaming & I do concentrate if I'm alone.  The problem starts with other people in the listening room,  it might be concentration for a whole album, but sooner or later some conversation starts,  maybe about the music, maybe about next doors cat,  but it then becomes somewhere between the causal background & the real listening levels.   The other state of between listening levels I find myself in - & I'm annoyed by it - is when listening alone I am picking up this damn laptop & go drifting off on whatever it is I'm "into" that day,  or this or another f-f-forums;   however despite the annoyance I do find its more like semi-concentrated listening & a higher level than the conversational state.  My guess is I am not alone in my listening habits.

Well I was glad to hear someone who seemed to know what he was talking about saying that the difference between 24/96 and CD was "subtle at best". That's certainly my conclusion but the " night and day" brigade on here were beginning to make me doubt myself. 

SJB