272 plus CDX2 and XPS2 non DR versus 272 plus XPS2 non DR and bare CDX2

I don't believe a 272 will improve on your 202/HCDR. It will, of course, add streaming functionality, which could potentially mean that you no longer need a CD player. But, if that's what you want, I think you'd be better off adding an NDX to your current system. If you just want a better preamp, get a 282.

Those are my impressions based on a couple of fairly lengthy dealer dem's. Others may, of course, have different opinions. I would add that despite my opinions above, I still thought the 272 was a great bit of kit, which really comes into its own with an XPS.

(I'm not a CD player person - you'll have to wait for someone else to chip in on that.)

Thanks but I think my views on the 282 are well known on here. Without going OT it's not a pre I would consider. Ditto the NDX, which, in my view, comes nowhere near the musicality of my CDX2 with or without XPS2. In any event I'm looking to keep the CDP and add streaming as something the rest of the family want.

I suspect you're right that a bare 272 won't beat a 202/HC2 but my question is really about whether removing my current XPS2 from the CDP and putting it on the 272 would beat my current arrangement.

I await other replies with interest. Surely somebody must have thought of this as an option.

Mike I agree with Chris but I haven't read your views on the 282.  For my part it is a pradigm shift on both the 202 and 272 but I guess you don't concur?

Glassy and digital to my ears and always has been. The sound opens up but is clinical/analytic rather than musical. It gains lots of audiophile stuff but loses musicality. It's also not an option as my next move would be "add streaming" with minimal additional boxes.

When you say you agree with Chris are you saying 282 plus HC2 beats bare 272 or 272 with XPS2?

I've heard 272 with XPS2 and 555 and it's a very good product and if you want to enjoy streaming and reduce boxes then it ticks all the boxes.

But in my opinion the 282 is the opposite to that you describe - with a good source (and CDX2/XPS is excellent) then it's a compelling listen and will present a far more enjoyable music experience than the 272. 

Recently heard the XPS DR in action. It was on an NDX as the dealer didn't have a CDX2 but I'm sure the effect would be the same. I auditioned the XPS as that's an addition I'd like this year to my CDX2. The effect was enormous! Bigger, better, more clarity, dynamics, definition, everything really. I'd you own and plea on keeping a CD player, a separate power supply is a must! 

interesting thread. I have always wondered about 272 vs 202 purely as analog preamps.

However now that I own both 202 and 282, I have been able to compare them both extensively side by side, and while the 202 is no slouch at all, the 282 is the more musical preamp, and has the added benefits of bigger soundstage in all directions.

I could live with either, however, but with a very strong preference for the 282.

I am not sure why the 282 sounds glassy and digital to Mike (this has been said about the older 82 also, particularly with HCDR), but then depends on speakers, sources, cables.

However, I did had to move from B&W to Dynaudio, but one of the best musical moves/upgrades I made. 

Mike if you don't like the 282, maybe a 252/SCDR is the one for you?

My own fault for responding to the 282 comment. To clarify then, there are no circumstances in which I would look at a 282 in my system. I've heard about 7 now with lots of speaker combinations and it does little for me. 

I've no interest in 252/300 as they're both beyond my financial reach at present but critically also don't offer what the 272 offers. 

I am also aware what the XPS2 brings to my CDX2. Knowing all that my question remains. 

If I were to lose the 202/HC2 and move the XPS2 onto a 272 would there be a net loss overall or in any specific areas? Alternatively, is it just different rather than better/worse?

as far as analogue preamp duties, the 272 is better than SN2 preamp, but still little under the 202... the good thing for 272 is that as a source is very close to NDX (if an older non-updated unit, the 272 is even slightly better).

282 is no way analytical or glassy... rather the 202 is! 282 is very smooth and refined, not edgy at all.

i suspect the opinion on 282 was more the result of CDX2 sound, which i heard is edgy and hard, sometimes. but since i haven't heard no CDX2 version, i cannot fully support this idea...

Mike,

Since I think your requirement is to add streaming without increasing the number of boxes then just swapping the 202 for a 282 is not going to achieve this so I'll concentrate on the 272.

Depending on the age of your CDX2 it may have a digital out facility. If so then I suspect that taking that into the 272 and putting the XPS on the 272 would be worth investigating. If not then I think that Naim can upgrade the CDX2 to have this facility and although more costly may give the best results.

The other advantage of XPSing the 272 is that the improvement will also be present for all sources including the streaming. Of course replacing the 202/HicapDR by a 272 also reduces the box count by 1 which is another win.

Yes, the 282 is utterly irrelevant to this discussion. FWIW I've never heard it with my CDX2. Only a CDS3 with various speaker and power combinations. Now, moving on...

My CDX2 is an early model and I'll only consider going down the digital upgrade route if I can dem that against mine minus XPS2 going analogue into the 272 and hear that it matches or improves on it. I don't really fancy converting it to a very expensive transport unless there is a tangible benefit with the 272.

i fully appreciate that the gain of 272 plus XPS2 will be heard on all sources. The questions are therefore

- how does 272/XPS2 stack up agains 202/HC2?

- assuming it's better (and that's what I currently don't know) then is there a loss in taking the XPS2 off the CDX2 and to what extent is that loss offset by the pre-amp gains?

- can any loss be regained by converting the CDX2 to transport only?

No-one?

Hi

Ive had a few demos recently. Playing around with power supplies in different parts of the system. The biggest difference I heard by far was the power supply on the source, every time. Adding a PS to a pre amp did obviously improve things too but nowhere near the same level. I heard the 272 with PS then NDX with PS into bare 272. (NDX was used as dealer didn't have a CDX2). No contest. The NDX kept in performance! The 272 was a small gain in comparison. I too have a CDX2 analogue only. I wouldn't even think about converting it unless you got down the seperate DAC route. You'd just be swapping one intergrated DAC for another. Then youre left with a digital only CDX2 which will impact on re sale. 

Taking the PS off the pre amp will only improve if you move it further up the chain. A bare CDX2 into a 272 with PS wont sound as good as CDX2 with PS into a bare 272 IMO. But to be fair, that is just on cd playback. To improve on the steaming side you'll have to have a PS On the 272. You need to treat them both as sources. Add a PS to both of you can. What source will you listen too most? 

Best thing to do though would obviously be to get in touch with a local dealer and arrange a morning for some demos. Ive not heard a 202, but I'd guess there would only be a subtle improvement with the 272. Just a guess. More of a sideways step to add a streaming source, rather than a pre amp upgrade? 

Interesting to read this and the NDX thread posing similar questions. It does sound very much like a potential reduction in what I get from the CDX2 with XPS2. CD will remain the primary source for a long time. I've yet to hear a streamer in my price range which comes near. Streaming will be more for wife and child with Apple devices initially, so the quality of cd output is the primary concern.

A second XPS2 is not on the agenda but equally nor is the sale of the CDX2. As said earlier I see no logic in doing a digital conversion. 

The CDX2 is and will be my primary source for the foreseeable future too. I don't have an XPS2 on it yet, but after hearing the improvement, it's an upgrade I can't live without! Once on, it will never come off. 

Agree with Finkfan, the xps2 is a sublime piece of kit, in fact it's a must have!!

I wouldn't have beleaved it would have made that big a difference till I heard it! A real eye opener. 

And fed into a 282,HC,250DR it sounded awesome. The speakers almost disappeared!