Super Lumina: A Cautionary Tale...

I bet it will come back to magic with the speakers cables set - the only one i could home demo, it brings a much much better warm medium and temper the high frequencies. Worth a try ?

Cheers

Similar experience here with the DIN to XLR between a 252 and a 250. As you say, icy and hi-fi. It takes a couple of months for the sound to change and the music to return, but it does.

I wonder whether the culprit was the DIN to XLR or Snaxo/552 SL?

It would take  a leap of faith for me to persevere for a couple of months in  the belief that something will eventually sound right or to convince myself that it was worth the investment. But there again I have experienced run-in times when I DR'd my NAC and S'cap way back when.

Richard

I have experienced something similar with my set of Vertere cables. I start by making it clear that my choice of Vertere was one of my very few irrational decisions based on a rumour - that Vertere is the maker of SuperLumina cables.

I bought speaker cables and interconnect (CDS3 to Supernait). Speaker cables are the Pulse X mini, the IC is the D-Fi. I was sold almost immediately: I now heard a warmer but more refined, defined sound, a more articulated and bodily lower octave, and coherence and integrity were immaculate. So, after some time I decided that I wanted to change the last link in the chain, the two Snaics connecting HC-DR and SN. I ordered them, and when they came I plugged them without a thought.

But at first I was puzzled: the sound had again changed, but not necessarily for the best: it seemed to have lost a little air, a little width, some sparkle. I tried the Naim Snaics back in place but I felt I had lost something, some richness perhaps. I decided to be patient and let the new cables run in.

Weeks passed: in the meantime, I had bought a pair of NAC A5 again, just in case... (thanks, Nigel, they are really mint), so a full set of Naim originals was ready. But as weeks passed, I found myself happy again: the sound has finally become what I hoped it would be: it has not the slightly excessive clarity of the NAC A5 but has 'lost' that hint of dullness, it's very natural, very coherent and full of detail. Vertere cables stay.

So, even if our cases are different, I suggest you to let the SL flourish and show what they are before you make a final decision.

Best, M.

Mike,

You don't have much to loose. You have a perfectly reliable and repeatable reference with the original cables.

Subject to agreement with your dealer, put the new ones back into the system and give them another couple of months.

If at the end of (say) four months you are still not delighted, revert to your current benchmark arrangement of cables. If this benchmark arrangement restores your delight, then return the inadequate new cables to your dealer/Naim for a full refund (*) and revert again to your current set-up.

(*) IMHO Naim/dealers can't fob you off with stuff that takes (say) four months to come on song and subsequently rely on some lesser time limit for customers to "commit"

It's odd how this thread has just appeared - I installed my Din to XLR about  20 or so minutes ago and am listening to some music now. The cable has been sat in the dealer's unheated storeroom for a couple of days, and then in the back of my car....

My first impression was that everything was somehow disjointed. It's really weird that it's seemingly sorting itself out as I listen. The background seems a lot quieter and the music is emerging as if from silence, with incredible clarity around the instruments, which seem to hang in space - I'm listening to Eleni Karaindrou's Medea in 96k which is a wonderful recording as you'd expect. Let's see how it develops over the coming days. Of course, this is the stereo version, unlike the ones used with the 500, so things may go differently.  

One thing I can say though, is that it's beautifully made and the way the compliant rings move about is just amazing. Just in case anyone hasn't seen one, here it is...

HH,

How far off the back is the HiLine sticking out from the Naim? I'm considering a HiLine to go between my CD5XS and 82, but the 82 has limited room on the right input with the Fraim post.

Thanks

Aric

It's not a Hiline, so I can't help. Sorry. 

Oh, didn't recognize the cable on the left - which I guess must be a burndy? - and assumed that was it. Sorry.

Nonetheless, seems the SL connection end is very similar to the HL. Appears to be somewhere near 3 inches?

Mike,

Interesting observations which mirror my own, at least in term of the Din-XLRs between 552PS and 300.

I felt that IC between NDS and 552 and the speaker cables produced an almost magical effect on the music; everything seemed 'just right'.  I then added the Din-XLRs, expecting an icing on the cake moment, only to be disappointed too; the sound took on a slightly edgy, 'listen to me' quality that I couldn't get to like despite a very extended audition.

All cables were well run in dem ones.  I actually concluded that in the context of my system, the way to go was speaker cables first, then IC although my dealer is of the opinion that the DR upgrade to the 300 I likely to be the thing I'll want to do first; still, it's good to have choices!

Cheers,

Ian

Hi Aric, the Hi-Line sticking from the back of my CD5XS... it is hanging totally freely and its back is 16 cm from the back of the CD player. This is... 6.3 inches. My other Hi-lines take the same space.

in my system, the snaxo SL cable has been absolutely magical, although it did take some time to really reveal its qualities. initially i wasnt bothered about this -- and fortunately i was away from home as i wasnt well -- so i didnt suffer through the full break-in. however, around xmas, i noticed a serious step change in performance for the better.  all of a sudden there were extra musicians in my recordings -- plus really pleasant and clear harmonic lines which made me want to sing along more (much to the annoyance of my daughter, who believes i cant sing anyhow... )

the oly problem for me is that the next SL is most probably out of the question -- i simply cannot afford 4 lengths of SL speaker wire and 4 lengths of DIN-XLR. and before anyone says it -- this is nothing to do with active -- i cannot afford even half that (i.e. 2 lengths of each). and the slight disappointment was the thought of hom much additional music i might be missing. but this is normal upgraditis.

in truth, if the SL snaxo cable had not worked, i would have very easily reverted to the ordinary 4-4 din cable and still be as happy as i was before trying the this new wire.

from reading DB's (and others) experiences --- assuming SL IC and sl snaxo are fully run in -- seems better to then try the SL speaker cable and let that run in BEFORE introducing the SL din-xlrs. but i am not talking from direct experience here -- just what i have read (or misread) here...

Good luck Mike... i would persevere for a while longer. The trick is not to listen to the system in anger for some time. if you have radio -- just leave that playing. i really wish this run-in issue didnt get in the way as it does -- but being a Naim owner for a long time -- this is nothing new -- it happens all the time (at least for me) and it does settle down in the end, even though the journey may be quite painful...

enjoy

ken

Felix H posted:

Hi Aric, the Hi-Line sticking from the back of my CD5XS... it is hanging totally freely and its back is 16 cm from the back of the CD player. This is... 6.3 inches. My other Hi-lines take the same space.

Thanks Felix. 6.3 inches, wow, no way that will work into my 82 unless I use one of the inputs that also carry output information. Damn.

ken c posted:

in my system, the snaxo SL cable has been absolutely magical, although it did take some time to really reveal its qualities. initially i wasnt bothered about this -- and fortunately i was away from home as i wasnt well -- so i didnt suffer through the full break-in. however, around xmas, i noticed a serious step change in performance for the better.  all of a sudden there were extra musicians in my recordings -- plus really pleasant and clear harmonic lines which made me want to sing along more (much to the annoyance of my daughter, who believes i cant sing anyhow... )

ken

Santa delivered then

I find this thread very curious. Personally, I'll listen for a cable for a couple of weeks, and even if it doesn't sound entirely run-in I'll persist if it sounds better than the previous cable but no way will I wait for months for it to even sound reasonable. I believe after so long you grow accustomed to the sound and start to relate to it, rather than the cable somehow magically becoming excellent. Chances are you've already disposed of your original cable and therefore can't go back to make the comparison. I also find it rather odd that folk will put up with this for months with a Naim cable, yet are prepared judge alternatives in a couple of days. Every cable I've ever tried has sounded either good or bad on first hearing, and no amount of running-in has changed this fundamental element.

At the moment, the only Naim cables I've got in my system is the digital SNAIC from 552PS to 552, & the NACA5 speaker cables. I did give an SL phono to DIN interconnect a good try, and I really wanted to like it, but it sounded poor in comparison to my Super Sarum. These cables are very system-dependent and you must trust your ears. If it doesn't sound good after a couple of days, you should give it a miss & try something else.

tonym posted:

I find this thread very curious. Personally, I'll listen for a cable for a couple of weeks, and even if it doesn't sound entirely run-in I'll persist if it sounds better than the previous cable but no way will I wait for months for it to even sound reasonable. I believe after so long you grow accustomed to the sound and start to relate to it, rather than the cable somehow magically becoming excellent. Chances are you've already disposed of your original cable and therefore can't go back to make the comparison. I also find it rather odd that folk will put up with this for months with a Naim cable, yet are prepared judge alternatives in a couple of days. Every cable I've ever tried has sounded either good or bad on first hearing, and no amount of running-in has changed this fundamental element.

 

 

A well-known phenomenon, and my interpretation of the majority of 'burning in' claims...  Things with mechanical compliance like speakers will change with time, and some electronic components can change with temperature, including permanent changes as a result ok themal changes and associated expansion and contraction. However, copper wires (or silver etc) and their insulation  will not change at all at the relatively very low currents and voltages in interconnects and speaker cables, unless for speakers they are so thin as to heat up significantly in use. And, though I don't know about Naim, it is common for manufacturers of good quality amplifiers to 'soak test' them by running on full power for a couple of days or more at the end of manufactur to check for any faults - and that would go a long way to 'burning in' any sensitive components.

tonym posted:

....If it doesn't sound good after a couple of days, you should give it a miss & try something else. 

If i had applied this 'rule' to my SL snaxo cable, i would have given up on an absolutely execellent cable - as it turnd about after about a week. And this is not a matter of getting 'used' to it -- this specific one was a seriously fundamental step change. i still have the old cable so i can easily swap back, but there is absolutely no point.

i agree though that whether a specific cable works or not is system dependent -- and as usual and to a very large extent -- also USER dependent...  i.e. this is not a wrong or right situation...

enjoy

ken

That's only a week Ken, not months and months, as some folk would have you do. And I bet it sounded promising from the off.

Innocent Bystander posted:

A well-known phenomenon, and my interpretation of the majority of 'burning in' claims...  Things with mechanical compliance like speakers will change with time, and some electronic components can change with temperature, including permanent changes as a result ok themal changes and associated expansion and contraction. However, copper wires (or silver etc) and their insulation  will not change at all at the relatively very low currents and voltages in interconnects and speaker cables, unless for speakers they are so thin as to heat up significantly in use. And, though I don't know about Naim, it is common for manufacturers of good quality amplifiers to 'soak test' them by running on full power for a couple of days or more at the end of manufactur to check for any faults - and that would go a long way to 'burning in' any sensitive components.

i have no idea why just copper wires need to run in. i dont even know whether its just copper wire or other effects come in -- for example, the insulation material and all the other bits and pieces that come with it. but i have experienced this 'run-in' and the sl snaxo cable was more pronounced in this respect.

but this is not a universal effect -- other users have found that this cable sounded good from the off. such is the nature of this hobby of ours.

and i know narhhhhthing...  

enjoy...

ken

tonym posted:

That's only a week Ken, not months and months, as some folk would have you do. And I bet it sounded promising from the off.

i believe there may be some merging of effects between the initial 'run-in' and the continuous improvement that often takes place after that -- over several months.  it is possible that different folk may make different conclusions on where the 'fully run in' point is -- hence this 'several months'. in my view, this should not be taken as gospel, but an expression of this continuous improvement process...

enjoy...

ken

Well, one day in, and the impact of the cable is just astonishing. Any initial doubts I had yesterday have completely vanished. It works wonders with the speaker cables - a 'full loom' with only three wires required. And it will only get better - for four months!

This must be close to a final set up? Feel I might need to demo the SL cables here soon. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

Well, one day in, and the impact of the cable is just astonishing. Any initial doubts I had yesterday have completely vanished. It works wonders with the speaker cables - a 'full loom' with only three wires required. And it will only get better - for four months!

according to current conventional wisdom, apparently the way you did the SL upgrades is the right way -- i.e. speaker leads first and then DIN XLRs. but i dont know whether this is a universal rule or not... one day to sound 'astonishing' sounds good... :-)

enjoy

ken

Dan43 posted:

This must be close to a final set up? Feel I might need to demo the SL cables here soon. 

Nowt else to do now but enjoy the music.