Anyone using cryo NACA5 speaker cables? Benefits or not?

I use it. AV Options in the US does it. It brings a nice increase in resolution and expressiveness over standard NACA5.

Thanks for that. A little trip to my local cryo shop is in order methinks.

You may want to have a look at this video, previously posted by Badlands, before spending any of your hard earned.

Well, for a video purported to debunk pseudo-science, it's very thin on actual science. More a self-congratulatory laugh fest. The engineer on the right who claims a materials-science background fails to mention that electrical conductivity and metal hardness increase after cryo treatment. Nor does he mention that the effects are permanent, preferring to imply that any effect would disappear after returning the material to room temperature, which is not the case.

While it's not a panacea, when applied judiciously, the benefits are real. I've compared cryo to non cryo treated power bars and cryo to non treated cables many times, in blind listening. I've heard the gains enough times to have convinced myself that the effect is not imaginary. That AV Options are using it (judiciously) is also testament to its worth. They don't seem like the type of outfit that would subscribe to pseudo-science... 

I invite anyone who has doubts to take a simple and inexpensive test. Order a cryo-treated copper/copper power cable from Ice Age Audio (under US$100) and compare it to your Powerline. Report back.

They are saying, "The phenomenon doesn't exist because I don't believe the explanation." Perhaps the phenomenon really does exist and the explanation is wrong,  or perhaps the phenomenon exists and their skepticism is misplaced. Instead of sitting on the couch, chortling and spouting dogma, they should use their ears to perform the experiment--does any of this voodoo make things sound different? In my experience, some does. 

I can't answer the OP question, but I agree fully with Jan-Eric.  I am now using five of the deep cryo treated Tibia power chords from AVOptions, and they provide sound quality boost which is way above average for their modest cost.  I do not claim to understand all of the physics involved, but I can hear the difference.

Charlie

Well that's a relief, I'm not hallucinating then.

Charlie, have you compared the Cryo Tibia with the Powerline?

Jan-Erik Nordoen posted:

Charlie, have you compared the Cryo Tibia with the Powerline?

That is a good idea.  I have two Powerlines, on the 250 and the 555PS.  In principal, that should be easy, but in practice, it is a pain to get down behind my triple stack to change chords without making a mess.  And thus, some likelyhood of making inintended changes to the sound.

I started with the two PL and all the rest Tibea, and replaced the Tibea (with the AVOptions Deep Cryo treated Tibea chords) on my two HiCaps powering the 282.  This made a difference that at first seemed subtle or ambiguous, but after listening a while seemed to become more obvious.  At that time I elected to purchase three more, as th e improvement per dollar was definitely better in proportion to the cost of a PowerLine, for example.  For $40US I feel the Deep Cryo Tibea is a no-brainer, but (based on my memory of installing the first Powerline) I am pretty sure the PowerLine will bring more improvement at its much higher cost.

I may have a chance to perform that experiment next month or so, after my 250 is upgraded to DR.  I may be able to organize the power chords such that I can more easily make that switch after the 250DR breaks in.  BTW, I am sufficiently persuaded that I am shipping my Powerline to be Deep Cryo treated. 

I am expecting the performance improvement from the DR upgrade (to the 250) will be notably more than what I would get from purchasing two Powerlines, for nearly the same money.  I am tentatively of the opinion that the Deep Cryo treatment offers higher value over cost than many other upgrades - but my experience is limited and I would welcome the opinion of others with more experience.

Charlie

Jan-Eric,  Hey!  wait a minute!  You are the reviewer - why don't you make that comparison?  

I'll throw all your cables in my freezer for a week for a hundred bucks...

CharlieP posted:

Jan-Eric,  Hey!  wait a minute!  You are the reviewer - why don't you make that comparison?  

Hi Charlie,

Because, like you, I welcome the opinion of others with more experience.

Jan

Took a look at the video, come to find out I've ran into these guys before!

Guess what, most of the Forum has, why, that's what we do. Found it very interesting to see what they had to say about Bi amping vs Bi wiring.

Funny thing they took the same position as Naim, they even pointed out the difference between passive and active Bi amping, and favoured active Bi amping for obvious reasons.

I would love to here what some of the Forum members, who are very analytical and technical, would have to say on this topic!

Especially Electrical Engineers!

Thanks all for the replies above.  I'm getting ready to get some cabling looms and needed to know about said matters.

I wonder if cables can be cryo'd, what about whole amps????  Silly question but have to ask.

I think the whole thing is a bunch of snake-oil and hocus pocus - but generally harmless. Don't freeze your amp, because that is not harmless, you will destroy the electrolytic capacitors and who knows what else.....

Dupree is right that components in your amp will not take cryo treatment without damage.

But Dupree, don't waste your money if you are so inherently skeptical.  But recognize that you have an unsubstantiated opinion.

WTCRP, or anyone who is curious enough to take a chance and try a deep cryo treated cable - give one cable a try in your system and listen to some music.  If you like what you hear, you will be happy with the investment.  If you don't like it, maybe you can return it - then you can tell Dupree :  "Hey you were right."  Of course, if you really like it, you are going to wonder "how does this work?" 

Charlie

Jan-Erik Nordoen posted:

Because, like you, I welcome the opinion of others with more experience.

 Cold Reception

and, because you may expect it of me, Spartichill

No cold reception intended. And thanks for the link.

Expectation. I know, but my eyes freeze over at the thought of another power cable test.

Come on Charlie, you know you want to.

Let's chill !

The rebirth of cool

You can save some cash by signing up for one of these treatments and taking your cables with you.

And don't forget to breathe deep into your ba**z.

OK, I will give it a go when I find the time.  It will take some time.

This is turning into a really cool thread!

CharlieP posted:

Dupree is right that components in your amp will not take cryo treatment without damage.

But Dupree, don't waste your money if you are so inherently skeptical.  But recognize that you have an unsubstantiated opinion.

WTCRP, or anyone who is curious enough to take a chance and try a deep cryo treated cable - give one cable a try in your system and listen to some music.  If you like what you hear, you will be happy with the investment.  If you don't like it, maybe you can return it - then you can tell Dupree :  "Hey you were right."  Of course, if you really like it, you are going to wonder "how does this work?" 

Charlie

 

Hey, it's a hobby buy whatever makes you happy and that brings you the most enjoyment out of the music... Some people don't like NAIM and are skeptical that NAIM is a good value with their relatively low spec-wise amps etc. I have found through listening that I like their sound the best and provides in my situation the most enjoyable musical experience.  Does that make Mark Levinson or McIntosh bad? No, just not my cup of tea. I have heard cable tests and the best I could ever discern amongst high quality cables is that to a subtle difficult to pinpoint degree some cables can make some things sound a bit different - not necessarily anything I could say better or worse about other than ranking by cost. It is also a huge rabbit-hole and infinitely expensive - I would rather spend on LP's or better source and use NACA5 and the factory interconnects and wiremold outlet strips as they provide great, consistent and documented performance and to my ear provide an excellent musical experience. 

DUPREE posted:

CharlieP posted:

Dupree is right that components in your amp will not take cryo treatment without damage.

But Dupree, don't waste your money if you are so inherently skeptical.  But recognize that you have an unsubstantiated opinion.

WTCRP, or anyone who is curious enough to take a chance and try a deep cryo treated cable - give one cable a try in your system and listen to some music.  If you like what you hear, you will be happy with the investment.  If you don't like it, maybe you can return it - then you can tell Dupree :  "Hey you were right."  Of course, if you really like it, you are going to wonder "how does this work?" 

Charlie

 

Hey, it's a hobby buy whatever makes you happy and that brings you the most enjoyment out of the music... Some people don't like NAIM and are skeptical that NAIM is a good value with their relatively low spec-wise amps etc. I have found through listening that I like their sound the best and provides in my situation the most enjoyable musical experience.  Does that make Mark Levinson or McIntosh bad? No, just not my cup of tea. I have heard cable tests and the best I could ever discern amongst high quality cables is that to a subtle difficult to pinpoint degree some cables can make some things sound a bit different - not necessarily anything I could say better or worse about other than ranking by cost. It is also a huge rabbit-hole and infinitely expensive - I would rather spend on LP's or better source and use NACA5 and the factory interconnects and wiremold outlet strips as they provide great, consistent and documented performance and to my ear provide an excellent musical experience. 

 

Dupree, I get that.  I have been slow to add expensive cables, but I now have two Powerlines, one HiLine.  Much to my dismay (because of what to me was ridiculous cost), the Naim cables offered sonic improvements comensurate with there cost.  The Deep Cryo treated Tibea cables were cheap to try, so I did out of curiosity.  I felt they were well worth the money, so ended up with 5 of them.   Now there have been a preponderance of reports that the even more expensive SL cables bring even more performance to the table.   We all have to draw the line somewhere, and sit back to enjoy the music...

WTCRP,  I don't know if the discussion about power cables is relevant to you question about NACA5.  There is obviously a lot of scepticism regarding cryo treatment of cables, and reasonably so because the physical mechanism for audio performance enhancement is not obvious.  It may make things better or worse.  It may depend on how the treatment is done.  My guess is one has to try it and see for one's self.  The report that Adam linked is not encouraging - as Roy did not like the changes made to NACA5.  But does it matter how the treatment is performed? I suggest you contact Chris West at AVOptions, as I think they offer deep cryo treatment for NACA5.

Charlie