Muso in John lewis

Wow, that is quite a price drop :-) 

nigelb posted:

Supernuts posted:

I went to Richer Sounds to buy a Monitor Airstream S200 for the kitchen (better than a Play 1 in my opinion, and I'm not interested in multi-room) and came away with the Monitor - plus a Mu-so. It wasn't attractively displayed (being Richer Sounds) but on a whim I asked for a listen as I'd been enviously aware of the Naim brand for many years but had never owned one of their wonderful products. The staff were enthusiastic about the Mu-so and nothing was too much trouble when it came to plonking one in the demo room and going through its musical talents, even though it was the Saturday after New Year and the shop was mega-busy. After much umming and ah-ing on my part, the deal was sealed - for a tidy £800 (plus £200 for the Airstream)! A little retailer knowledge goes a long way...

See what happens when there is a decent in-store demo of the Mu-so. Just need to get John Lewis stores to do likewise which is where I would imagine considerable sales potential for Mu-so and Muso Qb resides.

Agreed. John Lewis is generally viewed in the eyes of the public as a quality retailer selling quality products. Seemingly the perfect match for Mu-so?!! Here's hoping that Naim and JLP can do this properly going forward and do this fantastic product justice. Surely its a win win?!

Solid Air posted:

Wow, that is quite a price drop :-) 

You thought you were cheap!

I was in John Lewis the other day and tried to have a play with the MuSo. There were no basic instructions for use and I tried the radio input and I tried connecting using my phone using the Naim app. I eventually gave up frustrated.

Poggy posted:

I was in John Lewis the other day and tried to have a play with the MuSo. There were no basic instructions for use and I tried the radio input and I tried connecting using my phone using the Naim app. I eventually gave up frustrated.

See what happens when there is no in-store demo at John Lewis.

Your average JL shopper will not:

a) understand why the Mu-so costs so much (at £895 compared to the competition).

b) ever consider spending £895 on a Mu-so without a proper demo to show off its superior SQ (and hence justify the price premium) unless they already know the Mu-so and are buying from JL out of convenience (a minor proportion of potential sales I would suggest).

This problem is only going to get worse when the lower cost Qb hits the stores and there is greater interest.

So many lost sales - it is a crying shame.

It is of course possible that Naim are ramping up their production capacity in China for the Mu-so to cope with a higher volume and are therefore quite happy with the sales volume at present. But I feel when potential customers have such poor experiences it will eventually do damage to the brand. You can hear it now, 'Oh yes Naim, that was that oblong box in JL that doesn't work'. I know Naim are working with JL on a new POS and sales staff training but I would suggest this is somewhat urgent as brand damage is now happening IMHO.

Sorry to be so critical but chaps you really need to get your act together and properly manage this new (non-tied, independent) sales channel.

Ah for the days when JL stores had proper hi-fi departments with demonstration rooms: bought quite a lot of my first student system from Robert Sayle in Cambridge...

nigelb posted:

Poggy posted:

I was in John Lewis the other day and tried to have a play with the MuSo. There were no basic instructions for use and I tried the radio input and I tried connecting using my phone using the Naim app. I eventually gave up frustrated.

See what happens when there is no in-store demo at John Lewis.

Your average JL shopper will not:

a) understand why the Mu-so costs so much (at £895 compared to the competition).

b) ever consider spending £895 on a Mu-so without a proper demo to show off its superior SQ (and hence justify the price premium) unless they already know the Mu-so and are buying from JL out of convenience (a minor proportion of potential sales I would suggest).

This problem is only going to get worse when the lower cost Qb hits the stores and there is greater interest.

So many lost sales - it is a crying shame.

It is of course possible that Naim are ramping up their production capacity in China for the Mu-so to cope with a higher volume and are therefore quite happy with the sales volume at present. But I feel when potential customers have such poor experiences it will eventually do damage to the brand. You can hear it now, 'Oh yes Naim, that was that oblong box in JL that doesn't work'. I know Naim are working with JL on a new POS and sales staff training but I would suggest this is somewhat urgent as brand damage is now happening IMHO.

Sorry to be so critical but chaps you really need to get your act together and properly manage this new (non-tied, independent) sales channel.

Pretty much the nature of the beast. Naim can do all the training in the world and all the Pos in the world, if John Lewis don't implement it properly not much naim can really do.

ssmith posted:

nigelb posted:

Poggy posted:

I was in John Lewis the other day and tried to have a play with the MuSo. There were no basic instructions for use and I tried the radio input and I tried connecting using my phone using the Naim app. I eventually gave up frustrated.

See what happens when there is no in-store demo at John Lewis.

Your average JL shopper will not:

a) understand why the Mu-so costs so much (at £895 compared to the competition).

b) ever consider spending £895 on a Mu-so without a proper demo to show off its superior SQ (and hence justify the price premium) unless they already know the Mu-so and are buying from JL out of convenience (a minor proportion of potential sales I would suggest).

This problem is only going to get worse when the lower cost Qb hits the stores and there is greater interest.

So many lost sales - it is a crying shame.

It is of course possible that Naim are ramping up their production capacity in China for the Mu-so to cope with a higher volume and are therefore quite happy with the sales volume at present. But I feel when potential customers have such poor experiences it will eventually do damage to the brand. You can hear it now, 'Oh yes Naim, that was that oblong box in JL that doesn't work'. I know Naim are working with JL on a new POS and sales staff training but I would suggest this is somewhat urgent as brand damage is now happening IMHO.

Sorry to be so critical but chaps you really need to get your act together and properly manage this new (non-tied, independent) sales channel.

Pretty much the nature of the beast. Naim can do all the training in the world and all the Pos in the world, if John Lewis don't implement it properly not much naim can really do.

Agreed, that is why I offered my mystery shopping expertise to the boss. It wouldn't take me long to go round all the JL stores to check out what exactly is happening re the sales process in-store. But the in-store training needs to happen first, mystery shopping checks that the training has happened and has been implemented (or not as is often the case).

As long as Naim have a degree of influence over JL then driving sales through JL is doable. You just need the departmental sales manager and a couple of enthusiastic sales assistants in each store to take an interest. Mu-so is the best sounding product of its type in the store. Full stop. What a great selling point and any enthusiastic sales assistant would love the thrill of showing that to a customer. It may be necessary to introduce some sales incentives into JL to focus minds a bit as they are a non-tied department store. Initial sales success will always drive more sales success.

I don't know why this topic has got my goat, maybe because I have been in sales for so long in my career and it irritates me to see a great product, with huge sales potential, be so poorly marketed.

Rant over, time for bed!

It may be necessary to introduce some sales incentives into JL to focus minds a bit as they are a non-tied department store.

 

Unless something has changed, JLP don't do direct sales incentives.

Nigelb originally posted:

"Mu-so is the best sounding product of its type in the store. Full stop. What a great selling point and any enthusiastic sales assistant would love the thrill of showing that to a customer. It may be necessary to introduce some sales incentives into JL to focus minds a bit as they are a non-tied department store. Initial sales success will always drive more sales success".

The fact that JL does not have sales incentives is one of the reasons why I and many others like to shop there,  I would hate it if they changed this policy.

They certainly won't do this simply to cater for one 'periphery' item which will never be a huge seller for them, whatever the sales incentives.

I will add that I listened to a Muso for the first time at my local JL yesterday. As a number of people have commented, it tends to be displayed on a middle shelf amongst another few similar items. in my particular store, B&W's product appeared to be highlighted on the top shelf, and the Sonus products were much more prominent with a display area of their own. I guess this is to be expected.

The Sonus was blaring out some quite loud music nearby, and the general cacophony in the store made it really difficult to hear any meaningful sounds from the Muso. So, initially I was not at all impressed. However, I decided to go back to the stand just before closing time to try to obtain a better demo, and sure enough, this time I was able to listen to the Muso with little or no distraction. What a difference!. Bearing in mind the deficiencies of the listening environment, I was much more impressed by the SQ of the Muso than I had anticipated. I can't really justify the expense of the Muso at the moment, but if I decide to replace the (pretty decent) DAB radio I have in my kitchen, then I will certainly opt for the Muso or it's new sibling.     

 A really desirable product.

Yes, I remember now that JL employees are partners and they share in the profits so no sales incentives.

However, my central point still remains. Unless JL can properly demonstrate the Mu-so's SQ prowess to justify to the uninitiated (to Naim) its price premium then there is absolutely no point in having them on display in JL stores. Might as well save on stock holding and retail space and just sell it click and collect (which now includes Waitrose stores by the way).

This however would miss out on a large proportion of the market and would be a shame. You saw for yourself, how a decent in-store demo made such a difference in far from ideal conditions. You will see from reading this thread however that there are many out there who fail to get a demo in JL and leave the store irritated and frustrated, with a poor impression of the brand.

Smart manufacturers who form a relationship with the retailer will always get disproportionate attention. You don't have to spend oodles on point of sale. This is an entirely new way of doing business for Naim which needs a very different approach.

The sales assistants in JL might just learn that they can be successful at selling the Mu-so to those customers where SQ is an important consideration - that might be incentive enough.

Yes, and I think I can now just about understand why some may choose to use the Muso as there primary source for listening to music. It certainly falls into the category of 'acceptable' to me in respect of sound quality - something that would not for me at least apply to any of the Sonus range. There would be something quite liberating about not being on the hi-fi merry-go-round. 

However, I am a confirmed 'hi-fi' addict (and have been since my middle teens), and so I couldn't possibly downsize or downgrade now. It might however have been very different had an item such as the Muso been available when I was younger.

Luckily, I am now extremely happy with my system, and don't conceive of any possible changes in the future. Nowadays, I am simply able to relax and listen to my music, and thanks to the enjoyment I get from my current setup, I listen to music more than ever before. Must remember to buy better quality earplugs for my motorcycle trips to safeguard this.

Still, I do now desire that Muso for the kitchen. I don't do enough cooking or spend enough time in my kitchen to justify the purchase, but I still want one. It's a disease, I guess, and probably just a matter of time before I succumb. 

Yes, indeed. The Mu-so and Mu-so Qb will only ever appeal to the 'hi-fi' addict as a secondary system in a room other than the main listening room. But this market is only a tiny fraction of the entire market for Mu-so and Mu-so Qb. Which is why Naim have taken the bold step to market it through non-specialist outlets like JL to serve this wider market.

It just needs a different sales and marketing approach to capture that new market - particularly as you are reliant on non-specialist sales assistants in an entirely independent chain of stores selling to a less knowledgeable (in all things hifi/streaming) potential customer base.

Let's hope JL and Naim can be really successful here as it will keep the brand strong and facilitate the development of their 'traditional' product ranges.

Hmack posted:

Bearing in mind the deficiencies of the listening environment, I was much more impressed by the SQ of the Muso than I had anticipated. I can't really justify the expense of the Muso at the moment, but if I decide to replace the (pretty decent) DAB radio I have in my kitchen, then I will certainly opt for the Muso or it's new sibling.     

 A really desirable product.

However at this point in time there's the unknown quantity represented by the Qb shortly to appear, with its different footprint and significantly less cost. 

If the SQ is still noticeably better than the other things out there with which it will be more competitive than the Mu-so price-wise then it might sell better, while at the same time in places like JL providing a pair of products to compare at different price points.

For some people the mu-so has some attraction for, say kitchen or casual space use, but it's footprint is quite substantial in such locations, and it is rather heavy to be easily moved between different locations should someone want to use it in a semi-mobile manner.

I personally don't like such products demonstrated to me, especially by sales assistants that seem to think that turning up the volume is what's going to sell it to me; I want to be able to play about with it, but for that to happen, the 'system' needs to be intuitive or it needs some basic instructions. The B&W Zeppelin was near the MuSo and the PoS setup enabled it to be 'just used'. 

Good point Poggy. Unless you're aquatinted with the controls of the Muso it's not very intuitive. in fact the other day even one of the salesmen in a local JL didn't know how to to use it. The Zeppelin Air is much easier to use, I have both, but the Mu-so sounds so much better.

Do naim rent shelf space in jl, or do they give jl a percent of every sale? How big is that percent compared to the likes of sonos.

Ask the question What way do naim do business with jl and that might clear up some of the problems some people find when going into jl to see/listen to the muso.

Not sure Naim or JL would tell us as it is none of our business.

I had a much better demo of the Mu-so in JL in Watford yesterday. Unfortunately I could not play with it myself as it was linked up to a TV that the sales assistant had to activate. Anyway the demo was via a dedicated USB and it sounded great. The issue I had was the Mu-so was hidden away from its competition in an alcove dedicated to TVs and it looked like a very, very expensive sound bar perched as it was beneath a Telly surrounded by more TVs.

I asked if there was anything a bit less expensive and predictably I was demonstrated the Sonos Play 1, 2 & 5 on a very professional display using a dedicated tablet and the Sonos app. Although the 5 was good, it wasn't a patch on the Mu-so (thankfully). When I asked why the Mu-so was twice the price of the Play 5, I was correctly told that the Mu-so was the best sounding with better drivers and amps. When I asked if the Mu-so had an app I was told it did not. Bugger - it was all going so well.

The sales assistant did however print me off a JL headed spec sheet for the Mu-so - none of the tatty old Richer Sounds spec sheet I saw at another JL!

Not bad but I suspect many a punter will be heard muttering...'£895 for a flaming sound bar, you must be kidding'...as they walk away from the Mu-so.

6.5 out of 10

This however was far better that the Mu-so demo I received at the Apple Store about 20 mins later. When I eventually got served, the demo was to leave me listening to an Apple Music stream from an iPhone via Bluetooth. You don't need me to tell you how poor it sounded. I wanted to see if the Mu-so could be fed something a little better to show off its SQ capability but the sales assistant had lost interest in me and the Mu-so. No chance of selling much volume through Apple Stores if this is typical of the demos IMHO.

2 to of 10

Paul - if you are logged in, this is the last mystery shopping report you get for free!

That was similar to my experience at the Watford store Nigel. Even if you were looking purposefully for the Mu-so in the store you'd be hard pressed to find it. It's not exactly presented in a 'come and buy me' manner. 

Personally I think Naim released the Mu-so too early. I was one of the early buyers and it was a PITA to use for quite a while with numerous dropouts and loss of connection with the app. Now the app software sorted it's reasonably easy to use if you know what you're doing, and that's the crux, it's not as intuitive to use as the Sonos and B&W which will put many people off buying it, even given the SQ is superior.

With regard to the Naim app am I the only one who thinks it is easy to use nicely designed? Does everything i want, rarely crashes. I'm not a massive computer geek but I find it intuative. I feel it gets a hard time.

I have no problems with it either. It works jolly well. 

That is why I think it is so important to show off the Naim app feature in-store like Sonos do so well. I think Naim and the Mu-so compete well on this feature so why not flaunt it. JL staff appear to think the Naim app doesn't even exist. What a shame.

Nigel, no such thing as a free lunch come over in the summer and I will buy you one, thanks for the input.

Steve, timing of launch has worked out rather well actually we are delighted with the sales, of course the challenge is to improve everything we do not just our products but the whole naim experience....

Paul Stephenson posted:

Nigel, no such thing as a free lunch come over in the summer and I will buy you one, thanks for the input.

Steve, timing of launch has worked out rather well actually we are delighted with the sales, of course the challenge is to improve everything we do not just our products but the whole naim experience....

Paul,

My Naim experience would be improved if you sent me free things. ��

Sam