Super Lumina in da house....

The SL speaker cable (3m), SL IC and the SL Din-XLR comes to more than the £3600 the XPS DR costs, unless you had a hefty discount. 

That, Steve, is true, but the 3m speaker cables and the Din to XLR together cost £3,300, which is less than £3,600. 

Interesting to have some more +ve feedback on the SL Din-XLRs where as recently there appears to have been a few more -ve comments or at least long burn in times for those with perhaps more expensive set ups.

Richard

When I first started buying Naim in 1989 I felt I had "arrived" in a hi-fi sense. Music was just 'right" with my Linn/Nail/Epos system. I had bought many different brands of hifi prior and always had an "itch' that something could be better.

One of the defining great things about Naim was that superb performance could be obtained with the inexpensive  Naim speaker cables , which obviated the need  to buy more esoteric cables. Now with the Superlumina we Naimites are now to be perpetually dissatisfied until be buy the overpriced and esoteric Naim product. A real pity in my opinion. I am very happy with my A5 cables, but sadly the SL cables are better and I am frustrated about the cost required. Best not to read this forum, I guess and keep away from listening to  SL cables.

Hi HH,

From your glowing report on the SL Din to XLR, I'm assuming that the Witch Hat which you tried was a distant second?

Regards,

Dave.

The Witch Hat is a good step up from the standard interconnect, but the step from the Witch Hat to the SL is about ten times greater - not that one can be wholly objective about these things, but I hope you get the idea. 

I recently bought a NAC N272 and have a NAP 250DR on order and soon to emerge blinking into the sunlight in Salisbury. I joked about not wanting to hear about a XPS DR anytime soon and my dealer then immediately said he would definitely recommend I bought a SL DIN to XLR and forget about the XPS DR. Unfortunately he is almost insisting on lending me one once my NAP 250 has run in.....

I am very highly sceptical about paying £150 for a lead, let alone £1500. But he has two or three times mentioned how special the SL interconnects are. So I am reading this thread with interest.

best

David

Hungryhalibut posted:

The Witch Hat is a good step up from the standard interconnect, but the step from the Witch Hat to the SL is about ten times greater - not that one can be wholly objective about these things, but I hope you get the idea. 

Oh well, in that case, I guess I'd best arrange a home demo of the SL Din to XLR.

Sounds likely the outcome will be along the lines of "Do not pass go, do not collect £200, go directly to SL"...............beans on toast for the next month! 

It's all good.

Dave.

David Hendon posted:

I recently bought a NAC N272 and have a NAP 250DR on order and soon to emerge blinking into the sunlight in Salisbury. I joked about not wanting to hear about a XPS DR anytime soon and my dealer then immediately said he would definitely recommend I bought a SL DIN to XLR and forget about the XPS DR. Unfortunately he is almost insisting on lending me one once my NAP 250 has run in.....

I am very highly sceptical about paying £150 for a lead, let alone £1500. But he has two or three times mentioned how special the SL interconnects are. So I am reading this thread with interest.

best

David

Well David I guess there's no harm in borrowing one!!! I have recently switched from a Chord anthem to a Naim hi-line (good 2nd hand price from my local Naim dealer) and I have to say it has matured the sound between my CDS3 and 282.  On the other hand with my 250DR I'm using the stock XLR lead that came with it to hook up to my HC and it's still blowing me away.

Regards,

Lindsay

Yes I have to say the way HH describes the effects of new upgrades to his system leaves an appetite to try the items that get mentioned.

Tested SL SC and IC on a previous set-up and they do have a very noticeable effect, sounds quite transformative on this 272/250 combo, which leaves me wanting to try them naturally :-)

PS : email on profile...

HH: congratulations! i have no difficulty identifying with what you are experiencing -- the SL effect. as i said before, i am thinking seriously about bread and water diet for my next cable upgrade -- but this will take a long time -- so in desperation, may consider organ donation. yes, its all mad!!

enjoy

ken

I'm very pleased that I have waited a good few months to let all the boxes run in before trying the wires. If you get everything at once you don't know what does what. I'd also beware of any dealer (David) who insists I try things - my friendly local Audio T never do that, and I'd give them short shrift if they did.

Back to the music - I'm listening to Nigel (top name) North playing Bach on the lute, and it's just like he's in the room, to an extent I've never heard before, totally outside of the speakers. It's all very beguiling, but in a very natural way - there is none of that weird pinpoint imaging where you can 'see' that one cymbal is six inches to the left of another - all the strands are very easy to hear and yet it all hangs together so well. Im not good at doing Hifi review speak so won't try, but just saying that it's incredibly musical sounds a bit of a cop out.

Your experience of Super Lumina in a Classic system matches mine, HH.  I've had to shell out for the SL interconnect, too, and recently double-up on the DIN-XLRs when I replaced my 250 with a 300DR but I'd still say the cumulative benefit of a 'full loom' SL is ahead of some black-box upgrades.  

I suspect you're also enjoying a feeling of completeness, knowing your set-up must now be operating to its maximum potential. 

Mike 

Question I have though is this.  I can get a SL to go between my CDP and pre, and SL DIN - XLR to run between my HC and 250DR but isn't it all compromised by the standard wire (good that it is) that runs between my pre and HC?

Lindsay

I think I can lay claim to an even more unlikely experience with SL speaker cables, in value for money terms. Last year at my dealer I had a listen to a 200DR with Kudos X2 speakers. With NAC A5, of course. Then I listened to them with SL speaker cable. Total combined cost of power amp and speakers - £3420. Cost of the 5m length of SL cable I'd need - £3000. Totally unjustifiable, you might think. The trouble is that even in this humble setup, the improved sound quality was very substantial. It immediately sounded as though the musicians had moved forwards into the room, with greatly increased clarity. The difference in performance was easily comparable to a box upgrade of similar price - but the trouble with that is that I really don't have room for any more boxes. So you can see where this might go......

Nice post HH, I recognise the feelings described 

Yes, SL full loom for Classic systems can make sense for those wishing to max out what they have.

Enjoy the music now!

Hi Chris, I was thinking of you and how I thought you were a bit potty getting SL speaker cables with your Supernait and little speakers - but it seems not so potty after all. I still think that leads that cost more than the speakers is conceptually difficult, but logic doesn't always seem to apply. 

What something brings to the party including value for money is very individual to us all isnt it Nigel.

I remember buying my first Naim product 5 or so years ago, the Uniti, and then getting a cold sweat when my dealer ran through the speaker cable options, ending up with Chord Epic and thinking what a silly amount of money for some cable!

Amazing how my perspective on value for money has changed in these last 5 years - I couldn't have conceived I would have ended up at the level of investment (and enjoyment I hasten to add!) I have done, especially where cable is concerned, but it all seems more acceptable and normal to me today.

Its a funny old game!

Ok, I'm hooked on the Greeen Dope, but Not quite ready yet, haft to rob a couple of Banks first. 

But Seriously, I'm a little confused, Please help with the understanding of the Full Loom! 

1st SL IC between Source and Pre Amp  Cdx2 > 282 Din to Din

2nd SL Speaker Cable

3rd SL Speaker Cable between Pre Amp and Amp Din to XLR

or is it PS to Amp

I thought the only purpose that the PS had was to power the Pre Amp hence no need for SL between  PS and Amp

Please clarify! 

@Allante93. Remember HH is using a 272 250DR so hi full loom just requires a DIN4-XLR. This makes it really elegent and (comparitively) economical. If it was a 282/SC scenario (for example) the SNAIC leads currently carry both power and signal. The need for doing SL with this is a bit of a mystery to me too since, if you had a 252 or 552, you could not do SL between the pre and PS anyway because everything goes over the Burndy. And you cannot use a standard DIN5-DIN5 SL in place of SNAIC (when used to carry power) just like you cannot use a HiLine in place of a SNAIC in the same place.

@HH, Interesting write up. It's always questionable when the cost of the speaker cables starts to approach or even exceed the cost of the speakers. But, as another member (I forget who) on another thread correctly explained, if you want to get an upgrade without increasing box count and the difference is as good as you could get for spending similar money elsewhere in the system then the cost ratio to the rest of the system shouldn't be an issue beyond the psychological block you may have.

And besides, there are far far more expensive  cables out there then SL. In the grand scheme of things it is not that OTT. I have to admit, SL would not have been the first upgrade I would have considered but then again, I don't have the same box count restriction either.

I might definately start thinking about the SL loom but I think a substantial upgrade away from the 20.23s and moving the main system out of the kitchen are higher priorities. Ultimately it will depend on whther SL is more cost effective than changing the electronics and speakers. If it presents a better value upgrde then I'm totally open to it.

ken c posted:

so in desperation, may consider organ donation. yes, its all mad!!

Please tell us which organ you're considering donating so we can put things in perspective

Hungryhalibut posted:

I'm very pleased that I have waited a good few months to let all the boxes run in before trying the wires. If you get everything at once you don't know what does what. I'd also beware of any dealer (David) who insists I try things - my friendly local Audio T never do that, and I'd give them short shrift if they did.

Back to the music - I'm listening to Nigel (top name) North playing Bach on the lute, and it's just like he's in the room, to an extent I've never heard before, totally outside of the speakers. It's all very beguiling, but in a very natural way - there is none of that weird pinpoint imaging where you can 'see' that one cymbal is six inches to the left of another - all the strands are very easy to hear and yet it all hangs together so well. Im not good at doing Hifi review speak so won't try, but just saying that it's incredibly musical sounds a bit of a cop out.

Do the lute strings integrate as an organic whole/instrument? My experience with other super (not lumina) speaker cables is that they separate them out in the soundstage, which gets on my nerves. Same on piano, guitar, cello.... I'm told this is due to the use of PTFE insulation which, if I remember correctly, also features in the Superlumina construction.

Hungryhalibut posted:

There have been a few threads about Naim's hugely expensive new cables

Really?  I hadn't spotted them. 

Anyway, congratulations on the new cables, good aren't they?

What I'm left wondering is whether they are simply fantastically good or that the cables they replaced weren't as good as we all thought.  Of course somewhat academic once you have the new ones.

joerand posted:

ken c posted:

so in desperation, may consider organ donation. yes, its all mad!!

Please tell us which organ you're considering donating so we can put things in perspective

ha ha ... come to think of it, at my age, i dont think anyone would be interested in any of my organs -- so perhaps this route is closed 

enjoy

ken

Michael_B posted:

"My experience with other super (not lumina) speaker cables is that they separate them out in the soundstage, which gets on my nerves. Same on piano, guitar, cello...."

I see quite a few people making this point about soundstage in respect of various pieces of hi-fi kit, but it's one that I just can't follow. If this were one of the attributes of the SL cables, it would be one very strong argument in support of my consideration of them in my system. This is also one of many strong attributes of the cables I personally use.

How can accurate separation of acoustic (in particular) instruments be viewed as a negative, unless you know for sure that this is something not desired by the composer/artist?