Priority of superior cabling in mid-level Naim system

If it works for you and you can afford it then why not? 

I would recommend you test Tellurium Q Diamond Black. Probably the best upgrade to a Naim system at the moment.

Another thing: power supply cables - get your dealer to lend you some to test. If you are US based I would recommend the following:

• MIT Magnum
• NAIM Powerline

Aric, you are not alone in thinking this way. I have a limit of three full sized Naim boxes - constrained by limited space rather than budget. The system I chose was NDX/282/200DR with Kudos X2 speakers. As discussed in a couple of other threads, I listened to this system first with NAC A5, then with Super Lumina speaker cable. On the face of it, spending almost as much on speaker cables as the combined cost of power amp and speakers seems utterly ridiculous. But the improvement was huge, and there are no other ways to upgrade this system without increasing the box count, which I'm not prepared to do.

So there you go - I haven't actually bought the SL cables....yet....but I might well do at some stage.  

Chris,

Looks like your system has progressed past your stated Biography one. Did you try SL speaker cable with the ICs too, or by themselves? What kind of ICs did you use if not SL?

I personally think cable design has dramatically improved over the last 7-8 years. More and more manufacturers seem to be really putting up some flagship models that greatly improved on their predecessors. 

As Chord thinks, this means that our boxes really are capable of sounding much better than we ever imagined. 

Frankly, I think we should all reevaluate the previous stepping stones up the path to musical nirvana. For me, having one of the best ICs on the market with a mid levelesque Naim system is not only important for maximizing current performance, I think its also a wise investment for future purchases, especially where the dem is required. Knowing how good your old system can be before spending gobs more money on a box upgrade if the differences presented are either minimal or not personally enjoyed was never really known before with average "conduits". 

Chances are if you can site your stereo in a good acoustical room, provide a dedicated power circuit for the HiFi, invest in well designed and made power cables, acquire an equipment rack that channels vibrations and minimizes microphony, and use not only the best interconnects and speaker cable you can afford, but models that synergistically jive with the ethos of your box(es) manufacturer(s); then you're going to get exceptional sound. Doing all of these things our my preference (even if they're cheaper...well maybe not the acoustically sound room) over going straight to the top of the box / speaker ladder.

All imo and experience of course.

Cheers

Aric

Hi Aric, I have the same cd player, and a 282. I have upgraded to Chord Sig T/A i/connects and Voodoo power cords. The owner of Voodoo Cable in the USA (elec.eng) told me to start at power cables which are the foundation of the "house" as it were. Then I got the interconnects, which lifted my system to a level I didn't think possible. It helps to squeeze every last bit of signal you can, and for me it has been a success. Ensure you have great bases for your kit, and play around to reduce vibrations everywhere, that has also been the biggest revelation to me. Good Luck!

Good points - couldn't agree more. NAIM is capable of exceptional performance - giving it good mains cables and interconnects really does help.

I'm using Super Lumina with my 272/250 and the difference over the standard wires is massive. But I do have very good speakers - I'm not sure I'd use them if I had Chris's X2s. 

I've just ordered SuperLumina speaker cables - testing will start next week

Also waiting for a delivery of Ovators S-400 for an extensive home-demo. 

Should be an interesting week....

Adam,

Congrats - I envy you with your upgrades. I'll be interested to hear your findings of both the cables and the 400's. Presumably you bought the SL's outright so they'll need to burn in? Demo 400's already sufficiently burned in? Give it a good long time to pass judgment and by all accounts here seek the best position for the 400's.

All chiding about burn in discs and yoga tracks aside, let us know how you get along with things. Hope it works out for you.

Indeed - SL's bought outright. Will be delivered with the Ovators. So not much chance for earlier burning in... 
May have to perform some voodoo on them...

As to the 400s  - any tips on positioning? My normal listing position is an equilateral triangle (speakers vs armchair).

ChrisSU posted:

The system I chose was NDX/282/200DR with Kudos X2 speakers. As discussed in a couple of other threads, I listened to this system first with NAC A5, then with Super Lumina speaker cable. On the face of it, spending almost as much on speaker cables as the combined cost of power amp and speakers seems utterly ridiculous.

So there you go - I haven't actually bought the SL cables....yet....but I might well do at some stage.  

way disbalanced setup if you ask me... so spending that amount on the speaker cable, i guess it really doesn't matter... the difference in speaker's quality from your 1,5k to a 5k or 6k is very consistent, far greater than adding better source or preamp. but it's your money, nevertheless.

I prefer the hi-line to Sarum TA between my CDP and pre.  Haven't tried a SL at home.  

I introduced the Sarum TA interconnect to go between my old NDX and my current 282 (but I think at that time I was using a Hicap non DR) in place of a Hiline. The STA was ex dem and was well run in. I heard an immediate and worthwhile improvement from the STA and part exchanged the Hiline. I am sure the STA had played its part in revealing the SQ improvements resulting from several upgrades (including the introduction of SL speaker cables) since the STA was first introduced.

I am not sure at what point in the Naim hierarchy of black boxes the improvement from a 'better' IC kicks in and becomes VFM but I hope Aric is happy with his punt and I look forward to some more feedback in due course.

Adam Zielinski posted:

Indeed - SL's bought outright. Will be delivered with the Ovators. So not much chance for earlier burning in... 
May have to perform some voodoo on them...

As to the 400s  - any tips on positioning? My normal listing position is an equilateral triangle (speakers vs armchair).

Equilateral triangle free of side and, at your discretion, rear walls and you will be good to go.

I'm still chuffed to bits with the S-400 in my room given the relative disaster the S-600 was.

Enjoy

G

Aric posted:

Chris,

Looks like your system has progressed past your stated Biography one. Did you try SL speaker cable with the ICs too, or by themselves? What kind of ICs did you use if not SL?

 

Hi Aric,

My profile is up to date! After listening at my dealers I came home with a 200DR, stage one of the process. Then I'll get the NDX, then replace the Superuniti with a 282, and I'm done. Progress has been delayed due to changes I need to make to the room etc. So I haven't reached the stage of cable upgrades.....yet!?

ChrisSU posted:

Aric posted:

Chris,

Looks like your system has progressed past your stated Biography one. Did you try SL speaker cable with the ICs too, or by themselves? What kind of ICs did you use if not SL?

 

Hi Aric,

My profile is up to date! After listening at my dealers I came home with a 200DR, stage one of the process. Then I'll get the NDX, then replace the Superuniti with a 282, and I'm done. Progress has been delayed due to changes I need to make to the room etc. So I haven't reached the stage of cable upgrades.....yet!?

Just out of interest, how much of an upgrade was the 200DR for the Superuniti?

GraemeH posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

Indeed - SL's bought outright. Will be delivered with the Ovators. So not much chance for earlier burning in... 
May have to perform some voodoo on them...

As to the 400s  - any tips on positioning? My normal listing position is an equilateral triangle (speakers vs armchair).

Equilateral triangle free of side and, at your discretion, rear walls and you will be good to go.

Thanks!

Mayor West posted:

ChrisSU posted:

Aric posted:

Chris,

Looks like your system has progressed past your stated Biography one. Did you try SL speaker cable with the ICs too, or by themselves? What kind of ICs did you use if not SL?

 

Hi Aric,

My profile is up to date! After listening at my dealers I came home with a 200DR, stage one of the process. Then I'll get the NDX, then replace the Superuniti with a 282, and I'm done. Progress has been delayed due to changes I need to make to the room etc. So I haven't reached the stage of cable upgrades.....yet!?

Just out of interest, how much of an upgrade was the 200DR for the Superuniti?

The 200 has bought a nice improvement to the Superuniti. There's a feeling of space around the instruments, and greater clarity and detail, which I guess comes from moving the power amp away from the other electronics. It's a slightly less meaty sound than the SU built in amp, which is more powerful at 80W compared to the 200's 70W. I guess a 250 would give you the best of both worlds in this respect, and I would have gone for one, but then I'd need a Hicap too, which is one more box than I'm prepared to have.

I have to confess to a bit of cheating here....I have an N-Sub hiding behind the sofa. If music is supposed to have Bass, I want to be able to hear it, and the sub means that I can achieve this while slumming it with a mere NAP200 and a small pair of speakers.   

ChrisSU posted:

Mayor West posted:

ChrisSU posted:

Aric posted:

Chris,

Looks like your system has progressed past your stated Biography one. Did you try SL speaker cable with the ICs too, or by themselves? What kind of ICs did you use if not SL?

 

Hi Aric,

My profile is up to date! After listening at my dealers I came home with a 200DR, stage one of the process. Then I'll get the NDX, then replace the Superuniti with a 282, and I'm done. Progress has been delayed due to changes I need to make to the room etc. So I haven't reached the stage of cable upgrades.....yet!?

Just out of interest, how much of an upgrade was the 200DR for the Superuniti?

The 200 has bought a nice improvement to the Superuniti. There's a feeling of space around the instruments, and greater clarity and detail, which I guess comes from moving the power amp away from the other electronics. It's a slightly less meaty sound than the SU built in amp, which is more powerful at 80W compared to the 200's 70W. I guess a 250 would give you the best of both worlds in this respect, and I would have gone for one, but then I'd need a Hicap too, which is one more box than I'm prepared to have.

I have to confess to a bit of cheating here....I have an N-Sub hiding behind the sofa. If music is supposed to have Bass, I want to be able to hear it, and the sub means that I can achieve this while slumming it with a mere NAP200 and a small pair of speakers.   

Sounds good, I'm sure there's plenty more enjoyment to come Chris! :-)

I will post a more in-depth review this weekend as I don't have much time to peck away at the keys. 

Cable arrived today and I installed straight away in the system. No A/B demoing with the Lavender. System turned off to disconnect and reconnect and then immediately powered back on. 

Was only going to listen to one song to make sure everything was functioning as it should before heading off to the gym. An hour later my wife arrived home and asked why I wasn't at the gym. Mistake made I said. Shouldn't have started listening. 

Another hour spent listening and I managed to force dinner upon myself. Two hours (SO FAR) spent listening this evening when I really only had about 30 minutes available. 

Don't know quite what else to say other than all the hyperbole is true! 

I'll get a few more hours of listening in before I bother to start trying to type something useful to detail what I'm hearing. For now, suffice it to say it ain't subtle! 

Adam Zielinski posted:

 

As to the 400s  - any tips on positioning? My normal listing position is an equilateral triangle (speakers vs armchair).

I would say about 30cm away from a rear wall and at least 50cm away from side walls with minimal or no toe-in. Optimal toe-in is possibly depending on the distance from the side walls. If you search a bit though the forum you will find more detailed (and certainly more qualified) recommendations. Enjoy the S400s and give them time to settle in. Best, nbpf 

Thank you!