What is High Resolution Audio?

Posted by: Simon-in-Suffolk on 14 January 2016

I was reading a thought provoking article by Bob Stuat at the AES on what constitutes high resolution audio. Here is my summary of his article.

Firstly he makes a good comment, that in hi res audio we tend to borrow many metaphors and adjectives from the visual world such as focus, transparency and definition, where he maintains hires audio should be natural, resembling real life, and sounds should have clear depth and positioning and seperate readily into perceptual streams, particularly where environmental effects cause multiple arrivals to our ears providing temporal resolution of sound structures which is akin to spatial resolution in vision. I agree with this observation..

Stuart then goes onto define high res audio without falling into the traps of limiting to the narrow definitions of digital audio Nyquist sample frequency and bit depths.. So in the analogue world, assuming high definition equates to natural sounding, then referring to the research by JW Oppenheimer and others that hearing is not bound by pitch perception (approx 18kHz) but our brains appear to exploit population coding, and can approach a temporal resolution of 8 υS. This implies a Gaussian bandwidth of about 44kHz .

Next Stuart introduces encoding and replay systems ... Still all in analogue. He suggests that in a typical recording and replay environment it could be appropriate to consider 8 cascade stages .. Now each stage impacts the bandwidth on the other, so with 8 cascaded interfaces so as to protect the bandwidth of 44 kHz through the cascade, each stage should more likely have a bandwidth of 100 kHz.

Now any of these of stages could be digital and then Nyquist and bit depths comes in to play .. So here we can see at least 96kHz  and upto 200 kHz (192kHz) given the cascaded bandwidth issues to fully capture 8uS spatial awareness. But referencing papers by M.S. Lewicki, and Jackson, Capp and Stuart, he states evidence shows with current digital sampling technology and hardware through decimation and interpolation that the results above 96kHz sample rate are very much diminished and that 96kHz would preserve most of the spectral content.

Now Stuart talks about bit depth of sampled audio. The increased bit depth above 16 bit give diminishing returns, and P.B. Fellgett's research into the thermal noise limit of a microphone shows that the fundamental limit of a microphone can be bound by a 17.5bit 192 kHz LPCM channel, therefore there is often little justification for using more than 18 bits.

Therefore to summarise  Stuat effectively suggests that Hi Res audio should capture as close as possible the 8uS temporal resolution and offer at least 18 bit LPCM dynamic range. (So with digital audio at least 96kHz sample rate with 18 bit sample length - or more likely the excessive 24 bit)

Stuart then talks about air temperature, air flow and shape of recording and listening rooms, as these will modify the audio .. But that's another story.

So food for thought, and nice to have a view that is more from a science/engineering perspective rather than the marketing room. I recommend this paper to AES members on this forum rather than rely on my paraphrasing .. J. Audio Eng Soc Vol 63 No 10   2015 Oct.

Simon

 

 

 

 

Posted on: 14 January 2016 by Mr Underhill

Simon,

Thanks for taking the time and effort to paraphrase this for those of us who are not AES members.

M

Posted on: 14 January 2016 by james n

+1 - very interesting read. 

Posted on: 14 January 2016 by Mike-B

I've printed it out for a read tonite.  But after a quick scan read I agree the diminishing returns with 16, 24 & 32 bit,  but pending a more studied read I'm not initially convinced about 18bit

Posted on: 14 January 2016 by Bert Schurink

Simon, thanks for bringing this to our attention. Very interesting perspective.

An additional perspective on this also is the recording quality. So I have seen that well recorded / engineered 16/44.1 music is sometimes of higher quality (at least from a perception level) than some of our high res music. So I like to believe that it's a combination of:

1. Recording and engineering quality of the recording;

2. Resolution of the recording 16/44.1 up to 24/192

3. The ability of our audio equipment to properly reflect the benefits of 1 & 2

4. Our personal disposition at the moment - sometimes MP3 can be leading to a great emotional reflection as you are yourself in the right mood.

Posted on: 14 January 2016 by p.

thanks for sharing, very interesting!

Posted on: 14 January 2016 by Hook

Interesting read - thank you Simon for summarizing!

From a purely subjective perspective, and based only about 50 needle drops, I've heard the most significant gains in sound quality by increasing the sample size from 16 to 24 bit. I heard more modest gains from increasing the bit rate in kHz from 44.1 to 88.2, and none at all beyond that (to 176.4).

ATB.

Hook

PS - Just for completeness, I should note that my "raw" needle drops are 2xDSD files. I use Korg's Audiogate software to convert them to FLAC for processing (selective pop/click removal only) and streaming.  With the NDS now supporting 1xDSD, I do plan to also make DSD versions available for streaming, but have not done so yet. The 24/88.2 FLAC files do sound very nice, at least to my old lugholes.

Posted on: 14 January 2016 by Allante93

Wow! What is Hi Res!

Perfect timing Simon, I hear the Forum responding in an Analytical Sense. Subjective vs Objective, limitation of the Brain lerks in with digital bit reference. This is good, but not being a hi tech guy, my take on your intro, I getting Hi Res is the closest thing to analog!

Being a Naim Forum, what comes to mind:

Fully loaded LP12 ---25K 

CD555 ----25K

NDS -----13K

""Out reference network player, the NDS, is an audiophile-quality music source, every bit the sonic equal of the very finest high-end CD players and turntables.""

 Mind you, I'm not suggesting that Hi Res can only be obtained at this level of gear.

But, gives one a reference point in which to aim, no matter which media source one chooses, be it the analog TT, Dgital CD, or Digital Streaming!

As as you pointed out on a previous post, we're entering a new paradigm, Now one has multiple choices, depending on Music and mood!

Nice Post Simon!

One can read the lines

Between the lines 

Or Beyond the lines 

Timing is everything!!!!

Posted on: 14 January 2016 by winkyincanada

For my ears, anything above CD standard is in the area of severely diminished returns. My understanding of bit depth is that higher bit depths, such as 24, allow for greater nuance in production (EQ etc) but that once it is packaged for listening, bit depths above 16 (or perhaps 18) don't really make any difference.

Frequencies above 20khz might be theoretically desirable, but few speakers can produce these frequencies at adequate levels. Preserving higher bandwidth through the chain might still be important from a point of ensuring flat response up to these limits and in controlling distortion, but very few systems will deliver these high frequencies to our ears.

Posted on: 14 January 2016 by al9315

Allante93

Initially - Simon - most interesting !

Allante93 - Are you suggesting LP12 CD555 NDS all give out the SAME sound ?!

I am sure many - even if as near as possible, all things are equal - would argue ? - probably including me !

Al

Posted on: 14 January 2016 by Morton

I have been ploughing through this article this afternoon; lots of interesting info but I won’t pretend that I understood everything, so would be interested in other better qualified views.

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

The basic conclusion is that CD quality or possibly SACD (due to the higher quality master used) is a far as you need to go, which is fine by me.

 

Posted on: 14 January 2016 by Simon-in-Suffolk

Morton, my only issue with tthat referenced doc it starts out by describing our hearing as centred around pitch perception and hearing pitch limits. With current evolving research and understanding of psycho acoustics  and how our bodies/brains decode sound this by many considered by many as rather old fashioned and limiting now. Oppenheimer and many others have shown we listen using temporal information as well as pitch using population encoding from our auditory syet ems. 

But to your point CD is all one might need to enjoy music... Absolutely. We don't need to listen in hi res to enjoy music.. and let's face it a true hi res reproduction system is beyond the reach of many when listening in your home or even studio environments...

Posted on: 14 January 2016 by Allante93
al9315 posted:

Allante93

Initially - Simon - most interesting !

Allante93 - Are you suggesting LP12 CD555 NDS all give out the SAME sound ?!

I am sure many - even if as near as possible, all things are equal - would argue ? - probably including me !

Al

No Al, in fact the opposite, depending on ones choice of music and mood.

But in the context of the Article, what is Hi Res, it appears that the author points towards a natural analog sound. Which surely favors the TT, with its mechanical presence.

Now Naim suggest with the following quote:

"Out reference network player, the NDS, is an audiophile-quality music source, every bit the sonic equal of the very finest high-end CD players and turntables."

But once again, a new paradigm, no longer ,which is best between analog TT, and the digital CD, no longer which is best between ,CD and Streaming, but a choice depending on Music and mood!!!!

Now the last paragraph, I think, me and Simon is on the same page.

 Choice is a good thing, in fact I'm paraphrasing Simon from a previous post.

The Armchair QB!!!

Posted on: 14 January 2016 by Allante93

This is why many on the Forum, have both, and some, all three!

The analog TT, and two digital choices!

 

Posted on: 14 January 2016 by George F
Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Morton, [...].

But to your point CD is all one might need to enjoy music... Absolutely. We don't need to listen in hi res to enjoy music.. and let's face it a true hi res reproduction system is beyond the reach of many when listening in your home or even studio environments...

Dear Simon,

I think this is absolutely true. I also think that timing is vital in the sense that one is carried along by great ensemble playing of music. But it is clear to me that the difference between accurate and vital ensemble and gaffs in ensemble is rather a lot lager than the time periods of even one cycle of the highest musical pitch that we can hear. Accurate and wonderful ensemble is not especially accurate in reality in the terms of of thousandths of a second. It would depend where you sit relative to the players in that case, but in reality you can perceive fine ensemble from almost every seat in a normal concert hall. 

So while I can see that hi res replay and recording may actually be significant in technical terms, I do wonder whether is is all that significant compared to the human efforts at precision of the musicians themselves. 

I suspect that is why even imperfect performances of music can give immense pleasure and bring total involvement in the duration of the performance. 

I hope that you do not mind me making this observation.

ATB from George

 

Posted on: 14 January 2016 by Adam Zielinski
Allante93 posted:

This is why many on the Forum, have both, and some, all three!

The analog TT, and two digital choices!

 

Indeed - I'm 'guilty' on 3 counts I actually seem to own some of the albums in 3 different formats. Most of the time it's down to a choice od high-res or vinyl then

Posted on: 14 January 2016 by Allante93

Ok, I haf to take a peek at the article.

What stood out, take a look at your ears, and the ending quote:

"For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." 

     —Carl Sagan

The Brain is a powerful organ, that we Don't fully understand!!!

Posted on: 14 January 2016 by Romi

The article appears to be about High Resolution in relation to streaming, which is still a mystery to me.  I did about one and half years ago visit a HiFi Dealer who purposely did not stock any components in relation to streaming, his explanation was that in order for streaming to be on level field with CD as to sound quality the cost would be roughly double for the streaming component.  Perhaps the situation is different now at the store?

Posted on: 14 January 2016 by Adam Zielinski

NDX is actually a bit cheaper than CDX.2 now They are comparable. That does not mean they sound the same, but the quality of playback from a well ripped CD is similar to CDX2.2. But that's 'Low resolution High Res'.

Where streaming really comes to life is with high-resolution files - given the amount of data they hold, physical storage is a bit tough (only BluRay Audio manages to store an album at 96kHz / 24 bit).

Posted on: 14 January 2016 by Simon-in-Suffolk

George, I welcome your observations... I guess what this might start to point to is that ability to make and participate in music in itself does not require hi res audio. The premise I paraphrased was that hires audio is as close to natural sound reproduction as possible. Music however is an abstraction, and I suspect many of its attributes can be enjoyed by our brains and souls through interpreting how we hear that sound.. And that sound perhaps can be quite far removed from real life naturalness.

Allante93, I think we might be on or close to the same page, however I would say the TT with all its inherent distortions and limitations is very un natural in terms of natural hires audio reproduction, however I believe it has distortions and qualities that we, or certainly I find attractive and appealing, which is why many of us choose to enjoy, at least in part, listening to music on it.. But in my experience a well endowed LP12 into a 500/552 based system into Kudos Titans sound absolutely beguiling and musical... But it is not natural.. I know I am not listening to real life .. But a wonderful sounding facsimile of it....

Simon

Posted on: 14 January 2016 by George F
Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

George, I welcome your observations... I guess what this might start to point to is that ability to make and participate in music in itself does not require hi res audio. The premise I paraphrased was that hires audio is as close to natural sound reproduction as possible. Music however is an abstraction, and I suspect many of its attributes can be enjoyed by our brains and souls through interpreting how we hear that sound.. And that sound perhaps can be quite far removed from real life naturalness.

[...].

Simon

Dear Simon,

I think we inevitably interpret the sounds of replay quite well. What is not so easily disguised in listening is slurring of the recording.

I have noticed that so many hi-end replay systems slur like mad to create a sort of atmospheric affect. Naim does not do this. 

Classical music requires clarity in the resultant replay. Not necessarily total accuracy, but good timbre helps .. And a real sense of dangerous dynamic.

But mono can bring all these things to the table even with such a modest system as I now have! I would no longer show someone my replay as it is too modest! But I intend to re-commission one ESL with a single channel amplifier, fed as a pre-amp with a Little Dot. 

Euphonious is not the same as slurred! 

Best wishes from George

 

Posted on: 14 January 2016 by Allante93

Ok, took another look at the Article, maybe digested 60% of it, not being a tech guy.

However, I did get the title, 24/192 Music Downloads, and why they make no sense . 

Now Simon's post is Titled What is Hi Resolution. I thought Simon was suggesting Hi Res done properly would have analog characteristics, including the warm natural qualites of the TT.

But in any event, the topic centers 16 bit Redbook Technology. And Stuart suggest there is no need for Hi Res, and how it negetively affects replay and takes up space.

I would like to link both ideas to what is done in practice by Naim Siminars, and heavy weights right here on the Forum.

When I heard the Statement, it was fronted with an NDS, hosted by the Esteem Manu. Some heavy weights who have an S1 Pre in place, actually prefer 16 bit Redbook technoloy to the analog TT, and yes both are in play within his System.

I would like to hear a Naim reference fronted with a TT, but I'm affraid that's not a popular option for the obvious reasons pointed out by Simon.

Where I'm a bit confussed, Hi Res Récords, CDs, and Streaming, when Adam confessed to three formats with récords. Made me think,  I have four formats with CDs, HDCD, Xrcd, Xrcd2, Xrcd24.

I think I'm learning, and guess what I must turn the Xrcd24 down, and Xrcd2, volume wise, sounds right, and when the Standard Redbook is done right, like Diana Krall Love Scenes, its hard to beat!

Just my two cents!!!

The Armchair QB!!!

Posted on: 14 January 2016 by Aleg
Allante93 posted:

 

...

Where I'm a bit confussed, Hi Res Récords, CDs, and Streaming, when Adam confessed to three formats with récords. Made me think,  I have four formats with CDs, HDCD, Xrcd, Xrcd2, Xrcd24.

I think I'm learning, and guess what I must turn the Xrcd24 down, and Xrcd2, volume wise, sounds right, and when the Standard Redbook is done right, like Diana Krall Love Scenes, its hard to beat!

Just my two cents!!!

The Armchair QB!!!

Xrcd, Xrcd2, Xrcd24 are not CD formats. They are just plain 44.1/16 CD's. It is just the mastering technology that has been done differently.

The end result is just an ordinary RedBook CD.

HDCD is also ordinary RedBook CD (even with some loss compared to non-HDCD, but that is supposed to be unhearable), UNLESS you have a CD-player that is capable of decoding HDCD, only then you will gain 4 extra bits and get a 44.1/20 signal.

Posted on: 14 January 2016 by Simon-in-Suffolk

Aleg, indeed and the so called extra four bits of HDCD is only an approx abstraction, as the processing of HDCD from DSP provides an analogue signal from 44.1/16 PCM data. The popular utility, HDCD.exe, used in much software decodes most of the HDCD processing and emulates this by expanding the PCM bit depth  slightly... so non HDCD DSP processors can approximate a HDCD DSP processor.

Simon

 

Posted on: 15 January 2016 by joerand

Seems the focus should be on seeking well-mastered music, resolution notwithstanding. Properly done Redbook does the trick. Anal retentiveness ought to be reserved for those that handle vinyl, not for the digital realm.

Posted on: 15 January 2016 by AussieSteve

I find my system and speakers is very critical of average recordings, mostly older stuff on cd. I get a magnificent sound with a well recorded album, but quite a few sound harsh and muddied underneath, I lose detail especially when there is more instrument and chords/notes being played. This is mainly older rock stuff I refer to. Does a DAC "spread"? the sound more so I can hear more passages into the music, and also does it help the sound of cd's which are not as well recorded? As an example, I have a "best of" Blondie, which has very clear and concise songs, and others which are harsh and muddy? Considering the albums are all cd standard, I am confused. I have read many times in audio magazines that components or speakers can highlight bad recordings, and ironically a smaller pair of JBL's I have (4307 & 4312) sound great with classic rock yet are 1/5 the price of my main speakers!