SuperNait2 for Harbeth 40.1

Harbeth 40 deserves better amplification imho.

SN2 probably not man enough to drive them properly.

Just in case you don't know - if you're buying new the 40.1s have been replaced by the 40.2s which are supposed to be pretty special but i'd echo the view that the top Harbeths really deserve better than an SN2 good though it is

Paulie posted:

some albums can be a little more "bass-ey" than others,

Which tell me don't go larger cabinets from Harbeth unless homedem

It may be that you could improve what you hear by changing the amp not the speakers. I have 30.1s and they are driven by a 252/250.2 combination and sound very good. Whether they produce the sort of bass you are looking for, I obviously couldn't tell, and I don't listen to electronic music with earth shaking bass. Nor do they sound like a sound system with  reggae but I don't have any complaints about the articulation or presence of the bass. 

Clive

Forget about the Harbeth completely and go for the Graham ls5/9.  I had that SN2 and Graham for well over a week and it betters the Harbeth IMO.

Did you compare the Graham's directly with Harbeth 30 and 40?

I have heard Harbeth 40.2 a couple of time in a dealer showroom. It needs a lot of space around them to work" correctly. We try them out with different electronics from SN2 to some exotic American monsters.These big Harbeths came into life when were driven by big Sugden Masterclass or some Pass Lab amplification.

By the way, I have ended up with SN2+HICAP+Harbeth C7 combination which is a balanced nice sounding combo.

i heard harbeth 40.2 with croft amps (same price level as SN2) and it worked very well, but, as the distributor said, they work better with bigger/better amps ... he said, 40.2 and nap 300 would be a dream. personally i think with clive: if you have the money to upgrade, i would prefer a bigger amp with your 30.1. (or go to the c7, for me the best speaker in the range). the 40.2 is a special beast imo and important too the 40.1 is very different from the 40.2. christoph

I would say the 40.1 will work with SN2 for sure but they would certainly thrive with more juice. 

WTCRP posted:

Forget about the Harbeth completely and go for the Graham ls5/9.  I had that SN2 and Graham for well over a week and it betters the Harbeth IMO.

+1

the LS5/9 are very good and not that bass'ey as large Harb's..

In a word: no. I just downgraded from 40.1 to SHL5+ because in my room my 552/300 couldn't handle them. 

40.1s are designed to monitor music listened to nearfield and at low volume. At medium / high volume they just generate too much bass, unless your room is very large, has a high ceiling, and/or lots of acoustic treatment.

Apparently the 40.2 is easier to manage but I wasn't ready to spend 20 thousand dollars without listening first, which was not possible in Montreal.

As usual try to home demo first!

claude

There is a video on the Harbeth forum showing real time power draw of the 40.1's. While they only needed 30-40 watts for a string quartet, it was a bit shocking to see them pull 500-750 watts for larger scale electronic music played at higher volumes.

So, depending on musical taste, room size and volume requirements, you might squeak by with a SuperNait, but (a lot) more power is probably better.

ATB.

Hook

Thank you very much for the opinions / recommendations / suggestions. Probably best to stick with what I have (SuperNait2 w/  Harbeth 30.1)  until I can afford a more powerful amp to do the speakers justice. 

I compared the SN2 directly with my Devore Nines, Harbeth 30.1 and Graham ls5/9.  Graham ls5/9 is more open than the 30.1 and Nines.  The Graham presents a slightly better soundstage over the 30.1as well. In my book the Graham trumps the 30.1.  I used to own a C7 but that was way warmer than the 30.1 hence it was sold.  I've never heard the SN2 with the 40.2 but by speculation one would need a very big space for these monsters to breath properly.

pz posted:

I have heard Harbeth 40.2 a couple of time in a dealer showroom. It needs a lot of space around them to work" correctly. We try them out with different electronics from SN2 to some exotic American monsters.These big Harbeths came into life when were driven by big Sugden Masterclass or some Pass Lab amplification.

By the way, I have ended up with SN2+HICAP+Harbeth C7 combination which is a balanced nice sounding combo.

 

 

Please don't ever audition the Graham ls5/9.  Otherwise you will be awaken from the matrix and realize a whole new world exists through the Graham. 

Harbeth 30.1 and supernait gives poor bass is definitely a speaker position problem. You can put millions on gear and it will sound crap if you don't position perfectly. Have you move speakers far enough from walls and corners? Speaker position is never ending story and it changes the sound more drastically then most upgrades.

Bass problem gets only worst with larger speakers. I have a suggestion. Take a speaker where you sit, play bass with a tone generator and move around slowly around your speaker usual position.  When the bass is the faintest put a tape on the floor and bring your speakers back. Sit and enjoy ! Of course you can start by simply moving the speakers but the above technic works great. 

Paulie posted:

Hello --

Somewhat of a Naim and Harbeth question: I presently have a pair of Harbeth 30.1, which sound lovely being driven by a SuperNait 2. If I was being picky, some albums can be a little more "bass-ey" than others, but the top - particularly piano and acoustic guitars are absolutely beautiful in their transparency and richness. I'd like to move up to a pair of Harbeth 40.1 speakers. Does anyone have this configuration (SuperNait2 with Harbeth 40.1)? Does the SuperNait2 have enough power for those larger speakers? And - has anyone upgraded from Harbeth 30.1 to the 40.1 and have a view on the extent of the improvement in the sound?

Thanks much.

I have listened to all the Harbeth speakers. The largest speaker from the Harbeth line I would ever consider is the SHL5. All the other smaller speakers C7ES3, M30 and P3ESR are all very good. The flagship Harbeth 40.1 although very good, is my least favourite speaker. The sheer scale and dynamics of the 40.1 are better than the SHL5 and the smaller Harbeth, but it is very difficult to integrate the speaker into the room, even if the room is considerably large. You would need a lot of room treatments, done right, to optimise the setup. In a typical domestic listening environment in the living hall or a room with minimal treatments, it is very likely you will not get the best out of the speakers. When listening to music at moderate to high volume levels, the overwhelming bass will cause problems and muck up the midrange. The plodding bass will be the main culprit (and weakness) of the 40.1 and you will need a lot of effort and attention to get the bass and balance of the 40.1 right. To me, it is not worth the effort. I have listened to the 40.1s in two different rooms, one in a moderately large living room and one in a dedicated room with extensive room treatments from Real Traps driven by a plethora of good amps.

To each his own. Personally if you want big speakers with big bass and large dynamics, consider other speakers such as the Naim Ovator S400 or something else. Not the 40.1. If you have to go with a Harbeth, the SHL5s would be the largest speaker I would consider. Easier to set up and bass is still manageable. Again, horses for courses.

* A disclaimer. The Harbeth 40.1s may sound sublime in the right setup but I have yet to listen to one.