Past Upgrades with Naim/Linn Mid Systems!

Posted by: Allante93 on 15 January 2016

Past Upgrades with Naim/Linn Mid Systems!

During the last the last three decades, I’ve been pretty busy with hi fi! It started with Son of Ampzilla/Polk Audio, LK 280/Kans, Then LK 280/Briks, Bi Amp Briks, and Finally, Active Tri-Amps Briks with LK 280’s.

A Full Blown Linn Aktiv System fronted with a Karin Pre, and Linn XO, with Bingo Card, Nice! The Active System just seemed to have a certain ease the way the music was being delivered, and when called upon the Bass was there. And as it relates to Amps, That was the quietest my Briks have ever sounded.

Then came Naim, Bi Amped Briks with 200 & 250, Amps most definitely, richer and thicker sounding than Linn Amps, and the 282 added a sense of clarity, but the Amps were not as quiet as Linn, perhaps this is the trade-off with Naim’s massive transformers!

Plus heating problems with Naim Amps, on more than one occasion 250 went into protection mode, and shut down! Never had a heating problem with Linn Amps! So I switched and put 200 on Woofer and Mids, leaving the 250.2 to handle the tweeter, no more heating problems, but the System didn’t perform as well.

Hence, back to the Bank, Tri Amped Passive Briks with the 200 on the Mids.

Incremental improvement over the Bi Amp, did allow more headroom, Bi Amped maxed out at 10.5 oclock, Tri Amped Maxed out at 9.5/10 oclock, but that cost me $4K for a Brand New 250.2 with full warranty. $4K worth of improvement, I think not!

Listening to this Forum is some dangerous stuff, for lack of a better word, So back to the Bank!

Next Upgrade, Racks, I always loved the classic look of my Sound Factory Tripods Racks, light weight and high rigidity, characteristics that suit Naim and Linn. But I’m hooked on Naim, Hence Fraim Lite seemed like the logical choice, being interchangeable with the reference Fraim.

First I Fraimlited the Brains, what the heck, Cdx2, 282, and Hi Cap DR. Did I notice a difference, yep! it looked good! 1.2K gone from the Bank!

Next I Fraimlited the Brawn’s Portion. Ok, Incremental difference, but definitely noticeable. the Amps quieted down. almost no hum at all. In fact, I think this upgrade trumped the addition of $4K 3rd amp. After completing the $.9K 3 Tier Brawns portion of the Fraim Lite, amps were now comparable to my LK 280's, as far as being quiet, and the added kicker, I can add more racks as I pursue the Active route.

You know what they say:

Once you gone Active, you can’t Passive Back!

When I’m talking quiet, You guys know what mean, when you take a double check to see if you System is powered off, After threat of Thunderstorm type of deal!

Ok, to the point, I think as far as Upgrades go, I don’t think no one Upgrade will be a revelation, but collectively, one approaches the intended reference point that the Manufacturer had in mind.

Of course their a many variables that can change the outcome, Room size, dimensions, softness, hardness, floors, etc… just to name a few.

Well Naim as done a fine job as far as Upgrades go, 2012 DR Tech to PSs, 2014 The Statement which led to SL ICs, DRed Amps, SL Speaker Cable, so if one gets bored, you can always take a trip to the Bank!!!!!

“Being entirely honest with oneself is a good exercise.”
Sigmund Freud

Honestly, Sometimes I wish I never started this project, but then again I never finish a project, ask my Wife!

Mac Mini streaming throughout both Systems:

Mac Mini > Airport Extreme > Airport Express > Emotive Dac 1 > Primare Pre 30 > Arcam P1 Mono Blocks > Vienna Acoustics Baby Grands > Audioquest King Cobra XLR IC's throughout! Set up for HDTV, but can't afford to busy with hi fi, I still have a 36 inch picture tube in the rec room! LOL......

Shared Experiences appreciated!
Enjoy your gear!

Posted on: 15 January 2016 by b_lund

The Briks shouldn't they be placed parallel to backwall ?

Posted on: 15 January 2016 by Allante93

When Overture Audio, the Linn dealer set them up, they suggested toed in, they are close to the wall. So I took there advice!

Posted on: 15 January 2016 by analogmusic

your real problem is those briks

Try some Dynaudios.

Posted on: 15 January 2016 by Allante93

I agree!

Posted on: 15 January 2016 by hungryhalibut

b_lund posted:
The Briks shouldn't they be placed parallel to backwall ?

They should - pointing straight ahead and as close to the wall as possible.

Posted on: 15 January 2016 by Allante93

Thanks HH, I will change them, Analog thinks I should trash them. I've become accustomed to them, 3 decades. The Linn dealer did set them up, but there is no substitute for experimenting on your own.

If I'm not mistaking a gentleman on the Forum used to run Active Briks with 500's, he was rather fond of them also.

Enjoy your gear!

Posted on: 15 January 2016 by hungryhalibut

Of course you shouldn't trash them. They could eat Dynaudios for breakfast.

Posted on: 15 January 2016 by analogmusic

maybe the briks were something "special" in those days, but times have moved on.

Anyway I think any speaker that is too power hungry and goes to 1-2 ohm impedance is a waste of money and a stupid design.

Knowing that Naim uses single transistors and not parallel ones, what on earth was going on in the minds of the brik designers? it had the peculiar effect of forcing you down the 6 pack 135 expense.

Posted on: 15 January 2016 by analogmusic

I would get rid of the briks get ovators, or "real" naim speakers, or PMC/Kudos/Neat/Dynaudios, go passive with one 250DR.

a 282/HCDR/250DR is an end game system.

Also get yourself a Chord Hugo DAC, and call it a day.

Posted on: 15 January 2016 by Allante93

analogmusic posted:
maybe the briks were something "special" in those days, but times have moved on.
Anyway I think any speaker that is too power hungry and goes to 1-2 ohm impedance is a waste of money and a stupid design.
Knowing that Naim uses single transistors and not parallel ones, what on earth was going on in the minds of the brik designers? it had the peculiar effect of forcing you down the 6 pack 135 expense.

What do you think of my award winning 2008 Vienna Acoustics?

Posted on: 15 January 2016 by gary yeowell

Hmm sounds like some advice being given by people who have likely never even heard the Briks. and then there is active.Firing straight ahead, placed close to a rear wall, and driven by something of 250 and upward they are capable of eating many modern designs for breakfast.... and then there is active.

Posted on: 15 January 2016 by analogmusic

I haven't heard them. Do they have a difficult impedance curve?

with Naim power amps, you really want a speaker that was designed with Naim amps in mind i.e. can cope with the speed, and isn't unreasonably demanding in terms of power.

Now Naim says their amps can cope with speakers down to 2 ohms with no problem, but those are for transients. You don't want a badly designed speaker that lives at 2 ohms full time !

Anyway with more knowledge than me can correct me, that is what I understand

Posted on: 15 January 2016 by gary yeowell

No need to look at specification, using ones ears is are far better indicator. Julian Vereker was well known to say to customers 'i won't sell you a 160/250 unless you own a pair of Briks first'.

Posted on: 15 January 2016 by analogmusic

well Gary the legendary Franco Serblin of Sonus Faber once said ""When you want more bass, you miss it; when you have it, it disturbs you." and the search for perfect bass was futile.

I have heard many many expensive speakers, and came to agree with what Franco Serblin said.

Huge bass heavy speakers have no place in the living room for me.

Posted on: 15 January 2016 by analogmusic

gary yeowell posted:
No need to look at specification, using ones ears is are far better indicator. Julian Vereker was well known to say to customers 'i won't sell you a 160/250 unless you own a pair of Briks first'.

But that was 30 + years ago.... Nobody from Naim says that anymore.

and I cannot imagine Julian saying this once Naim had developed their own speakers?

Posted on: 15 January 2016 by gary yeowell

But you are not the one using them, yet you manage to tell the owner he should get rid of them and buy something else?..... Strange.

Posted on: 15 January 2016 by gary yeowell

The point is that they were good enough then, and they still are.

Posted on: 15 January 2016 by analogmusic

it depends what one wants.

For me any speaker that works well with the Unitiqute2 (30 watts) is a good speaker.

Posted on: 15 January 2016 by gary yeowell

But we are not talking about you.

Posted on: 15 January 2016 by Christopher_M

analogmusic posted:
.......
For me any speaker that works well with the Unitiqute2 (30 watts) is a good speaker.

Have heard it said that Naim speakers need 30W if that helps.

Posted on: 15 January 2016 by b_lund

analogmusic posted:
I haven't heard them.
what on earth was going on in the minds of the brik designers?
Anyway with more knowledge than me can correct me, that is what I understand

What do you understand ?

Posted on: 15 January 2016 by analogmusic

from the internet "In early product manuals, Linn recommended using the Isobarik PMS in tri-amped configuration with Naim amplifiers.Three NAP 250 amplifiers, fed by a 3-way Naim electronic crossover, would typically be used, one for each pair of the doubled-up treble, midrange and bass units. From its introduction in 1984, the monaural NAP 135 can be used in a "6-pack" configuration."

To each their own, I can't justify this kind of expense for this kind of "speaker comes first" approach.

Posted on: 15 January 2016 by Cheekymonkey71

One of the best Naim based systems I've ever heard was my late grandfathers nac52, nat01, pair of 135's and a pair of 'bricks. The bricks had a grip on bass like nothing I've heard then or since even, and yet they could be as subtle and delicate as anything when needed. Don't pigeon hole or underestimate them.

Posted on: 15 January 2016 by Allante93

Analog, you are correct, they are a load, hence, my 250 went into thermo protection mode.

Now that I'm Tri Amping, the 250 on tweeter cool as a cumber, the 200 being a non regulated amp no heating problems. However, I think its doing a fine job on the mids. Now that hungry double Isobarik woofer, gets the 250 rather warm when kicking for an hour at 9 oclock, or more. But at 8 oclock she's good to go!

Now, once I'm Active I check back with you! Remember I,ve been full blown Active, Ask Ken, DB, Graham, Honeyball, just to name a few!

But personally, I think its a great idea two have two Systems, ie different manufactures. Keeps one grounded, and they fall into that cult like trap!

When I want to hear a nice balanced hi fi, the Primare Pre 30 and Arcam P1 Mono Blocks, is more than yo to the task!

But when I want to go to the club, for dinner and live entertainment, and Broke, I head to the living room. All others who Don't have a clue, to the REC room, Emotiva, Klipsch, to my surprise, it handles poor quality reproductions better than the other systems!

Posted on: 15 January 2016 by gary yeowell

analogmusic posted:
from the internet "In early product manuals, Linn recommended using the Isobarik PMS in tri-amped configuration with Naim amplifiers.Three NAP 250 amplifiers, fed by a 3-way Naim electronic crossover, would typically be used, one for each pair of the doubled-up treble, midrange and bass units. From its introduction in 1984, the monaural NAP 135 can be used in a "6-pack" configuration."

To each their own, I can't justify this kind of expense for this kind of "speaker comes first" approach.

Still not sure what 'your' 'justification' has to do with the OP throwing out his beautiful Briks. For your information, the Brik was available in both Active and Passive configuration, and sounded great with either, but better with the latter.