SN2 Vs NAC 200 + NAR 250 ( non DR )

No this is simple guys!

In other words what distinguishes a 202 from a 282?

The 282 with a SC DR closes the gap between a 252 with SC DR, is well noted on the Forum: 

And Perhaps the 552 is far superior to an 252, since it is powered only by Naims Best PS! 

Follow me! 

I was running 202/ napsc/ 200.... and then I tried a 282, would that help?

C.

The difference between a NAC202 and NAC282?  Well, apart from looking quite different inside and out, there's a simple answer Allante - just listen.

Oh, and as for CDX2, NAC282, Hicap DR and NAP250.2 being "well balanced" I'm not entirely sure where I said that; Yes, a NAC282/Hicap is better than a NAC202/Hicap when paired with the NAP250.2, but in either case the source is a bit light.  Most likely I would have added a power supply such as an XPS or 555PS on the CDX2 before heading to a NAP250.2.

Richard Dane posted:

Not necessarily TJ.  Masking exists at all levels of hifi performance and even a CDX2 has weaknesses as compared to even better sources that may be masked to some extent by a SN2 but revealed by a better  pre/power.  Combine that with the combination of a NAC202/Hicap/NAP250.2, which somehow always came across as comparatively lead footed compared to say a NAC282/NAP200, let alone a NAC282/Hicap/NAP250.2, and you may well have a system that is less than the sum of the parts. 

Now, that's not to say that a NAC202/Hicap/NAP250.2 is poor, it isn't, and in absolute terms it's excellent, it's just that if you spent the same money on a better pre-amp (say a NAC282) and a slightly lesser power amp (say a NAP200), you get an overall more engaging amplifier.  Of course, sticking with the NAP250.2 and going for a better pre-amp is better yet, but it's also more money.  As a general rule, I have found that with Naim (and with some other brands too), happy pre/power combos tend to have pre-amps at the same or better level than the power amp.  Unhappy combinations tend to have more in the power amp than the pre-amp.

A simple way to look at it is this; there's power (NAP = Naim Audio Power) and then there's control (NAC = Naim Audio Control). And power is useless without control... 

I think this direction of Richard makes a lot of sense. And I would like to build on it.

First guideline - get the best source which makes sense at the level of amplification you. So with a 282/200 you want a NDX or CDX and you wouldn't want to below that. You can get a NDS or a CD555 but you will see that the combinations and pre and power will not reveal all of what it's capable off.

Second guideline - ensure pre is on the same or better level than the power amp. So a 202, 282, and a 252 will still work well with a 200. Even a 552 could be a temporary step with a 200. However a 300 or 500 with a 202 doesn't make sense.

Richard Dane posted:
"Not necessarily TJ.  Masking exists at all levels of hifi performance and even a CDX2 has weaknesses as compared to even better sources that may be masked to some extent by a SN2 but revealed by a better  pre/power.  Combine that with the combination of a NAC202/Hicap/NAP250.2, which somehow always came across as comparatively lead footed compared to say a NAC282/NAP200, let alone a NAC282/Hicap/NAP250.2, and you may well have a system that is less than the sum of the parts."

I thought Richard was suggesting my System is well balanced with the above Red! 

Now Bert,

And First Guide Line get the Best Source with best level of Amplication! 

Cdx2 is the best source I could afford, does it match the 250.2?

2nd Guideline Ensure the pre is on the same lever or better than Amp: 

Does the 282 satisfy the 2nd Guideline, with the 250.2? 

If the above criteria is met, it would seem as though My System is well balance, and as Richard pointed out PS to the Cdx2 may help, XPS2 or 555PS, I guess! 

But what gets me is the following two statements:

"Naim NAC202 The NAC202, 282 and 252 are alarmingly similar inside."

If  it is a garbage statement, Then what is the difference in the guts of both pre Amps, that is again the 202 and 282?

Taking the ears out of the equation!  

The only Naim Pre Amps I ever heard was the S1 Hosted by Manu, and mine the 282.
So the chances of me listening to an 202 to hear the difference, probably not happening!

Mind you this is for my Understanding, I feel Bad passing along bad information.

Example:  Posted By Richard Dane:

"MDFdude posted:
 
so nDAC = NDS DAC section ?

Yes, and no...  
much is shared, such as the selected Burr Brown PCM1704K DAC chips, 40bit Sharc processor etc.. and both have a fully discrete analogue output stage.  The NDS goes further with no internal PSU and the mass loaded suspended boards."

I would hate to confuse any member with garbage information!

Not trying to dominate the OP's Post, but it's been suggested that garbage and nonsense can confuse members. That all I'm trying to rectify! 

Thanks Richard & Bert for the valuable information!

The Armchair QB!  

ALLANTE93, what are you seeking to establish here?  That your system sounds good?  Surely you know that, don't you?  

Turning to Allante's system, I certainly would not have a CDX2 and Hicapped 282 fronting triamped Isobariks. I'd have at least a CDS3 and 252. That front end with a single 250 is going to be far better than the current source and preamp with three power amps. Perhaps rather than asking endless questions, it might be a good idea to try that out - experience is infinitely more useful than theory in this case. 

Hi,  Just bought s/h 202 but at moment unable to purchase 200,  been offered  150 much cheaper, anyone used this combo ??  What do you think...............MEL

It will be very nice. Try to get a napsc for the 202 though, and a Hicap ideally.

Mel, I tried 202 and the power amp section of a nait 5, fairly similar to a Nap150, at one time and liked it. The only caveat would be does the 150 need a service, and is that why it's so cheap?

Chris

SongStream posted:

ALLANTE93, what are you seeking to establish here?  That your system sounds good?  Surely you know that, don't you?  

SongStream its not about me, but if I pass on garbage information, then it is about me.  That's not good to pass on garbage and nonsense, it Degrade the  quality of the Forum. 

My Bad I forgot the little red word inside, Thanks Richard!

"The difference between a NAC202 and NAC282?  Well, apart from looking quite different inside and out, there's a simple answer Allante - just listen."

You are right SongStream, I will shut up! Goodnight! 

A stupid moment, No harm meant! 

HH don't beat me up to bad LOL!!!!!! 

the guts are different inside also!!!!, hence a garbage statement! DAAAAA

Christopher_M posted:

Mel, I tried 202 and the power amp section of a nait 5, fairly similar to a Nap150, at one time and liked it. The only caveat would be does the 150 need a service, and is that why it's so cheap?

Chris

On s/h market NAP 150's much cheaper than 200 or 250,  or is there a noticeable improvement using NAC200 over 150 ?          MEL.

Hungryhalibut posted:

Perfect! Congratulations for wading through the dross to come to a sound understanding. Good luck.

thank you HH.

When i first went to audition for a stereo rig about 3 years ago - for some strange reason Naim was not on my list. After endless rounds of auditioning what i could - i heard a Naim pre-power combo. ( I have to find out which combo was that !! ) and i fell for the sound. I could not afford the pre-power at that time and so i settled for the naim Nait 5i-2.

(( Maybe it was listening fatigue - i dont know  )

From then on - it was Naim nait then Naim Naca 5 then Naim CDP as well.

An audition has a way of throwing up surprises and so i will audition for as much time as the dealer allows me to. Hopefully he will have the CD5XS as a source and then i could try the Naim Nait 5si, Naim XS2 and the SN2 as well.

While i do have a budget it will be nice to see where we end up here.

Hopefully this thread may not be closed by then and i could get a chance to put up a picture ( once i figure out how to !! ) of my purchase in the near to medium term.

regards

melvinolotus posted:

Hi,  Just bought s/h 202 but at moment unable to purchase 200,  been offered  150 much cheaper, anyone used this combo ??  What do you think...............MEL

The NAP150 is an excellent power amp but its weakness is when it's asked to also power a pre-amp.  This was the biggest improvement made with the revised NAP150x

richard,

you mean the NAP 155xs... ?

regards

The NAP155xs was a further improvement on the NAP150x.

Richard why it the weakness when asked to power a preamp?

what about Nap 200?

Because the pre-amp supply inside the NAP150 was pretty basic compared to the much better pre-amp supply inside the NAP200.  The pre-amp supply in the NAP150x was much improved (although still not up to that in the NAP200).

hi

couple of questions on my mind . There are in theory though

a. What will be the effect of a CDP like CDx2 into a simple Naim Nait 5si ?? Will the 5si be able to resolve and place into the listening space - all thats being fed into it ?

b. If we consider the next level from CD5si ie the Naim XS2 amp then the difference between these are in the pre-amp circuit ( besides power o/p ) where the 5si amp has only a volume pot.... the XS2 has an active pre amp.

Of these i suppose the XS2 would be more resolving - but the term active pre amp by default means " signal processing " which implies some " colour " to the sound. 

and with regard to the 5si amp - the term would be " signal attenuation " which implies loss of signal.

this is like - devil and the deep sea.. ??

Is this why amps with active pre amp sound better at low volumes - keeping the speakers constant.

I wouldn't get hung up by the 'signal processing' of the active preamp.. I think it's more distortion or signal degradation is the effect you are wanting to describe.. However a good preamp and amp will have minimum distortion and colour.. The active preamp however buffers the inputs before and after the volume control.. This will help provide a more consistent performance across different source impedances and importantly volume and signal levels. This is generally considered a good thing and preferable to the the slight inevitable distortion an active pre amp will bring.

Simon

Its like everything in HiFi.  Its complex. Most people like their pet solution because it does certain things well.  Problem is that there are other factors at play. I tried a pre free system for a year or two but at the end of the day a very good pre added more than it took away. Now when people say lose the pre  I say don't think so, been there done that.

a pre owned flatcap xs ( for approx USD 530 ) into my CD5XS and into the Nait 5i-2 = any worthwhile difference ?

I am trying to stick to the Nait 5i-2 = its got that something magic in it but while i cant afford a CDx2 for now - will the flatcap xs upgrade to the CDP be worth the while ??

I am trying my best not to increase boxes but maybe this is 1 way to max my CD5XS.....

I cannot audition before i buy - sadly - but the seller is very reputable.

bouquets... brickbats.... wilkommen !!

PS : My audio rack has 3 shelves and all 3 are occupied - so can i keep the flatcap XS on top of my CDP - or is that a no no ??

regards

Yes, the Flatcap will give a very worthwhile difference. No, you absolutely should not put the Flatcap on top of the CD player. 

ok.. thank you..

so i am looking at effectively another rack unless stacking my amp or cdp on top of the flatcap is technically ok to do...