Sennheiser HD 600 Headphone

Most interesting.

I have a very old pair of Stax headphones with their own amplifier but they are very long in the tooth now.

I assume that the HD600/650 has a 6.5mm jack.  What is the best quality adapter to plug into the headphone socket on a Superuniti?

The stock lead is actually 3.5mm with a removable 6.25mm adapter.

feeling_zen posted:

The stock lead is actually 3.5mm with a removable 6.25mm adapter.

Thanks very much

PeterJ posted:

Most interesting.

I have a very old pair of Stax headphones with their own amplifier but they are very long in the tooth now. 

 

Peter, which model Earspeaker and Energiser?

If it's a pair of late Stax Lambda Pros (Perhaps with an SRM1 Energiser?) then they may well be over 25 years old but, if in good fettle, can still compete with the best.  I only let my own Lambda Pros go to make way for a new pair of Signatures, and frankly there's not a whole lot between them.  Good though Sennheiser HD600s are, they are a fair way off from the best Stax electrostatics.

Dear Richard,

It is no surprise that STAX will be finer than HD 600s. I paid £220 for my 600s, which price is far from the most expensive conventional headphones, and quite a bit less than the least costly junior STAX now. 

I adore the way an ESL works, so I can understand your enthusiasm for the STAX headphones! As it seems my ESLs have little value, I think I’ll keep one in any case, and one get loudspeaker replay going again on a modest [volume] level once this year is out. 

But in the meantime I am preparing for a fairly momentous year, when I may even become a house owner for the first time. 

So at the moment the HD 600 is a nice headphone for main music listening, and is good enough for me to know that they will never leave.

In other words the brake is fully engaged in respect of anything remotely luxurious!

Best wishes from George

Richard Dane posted:

PeterJ posted:

Most interesting.

I have a very old pair of Stax headphones with their own amplifier but they are very long in the tooth now. 

 

Peter, which model Earspeaker and Energiser?

If it's a pair of late Stax Lambda Pros (Perhaps with an SRM1 Energiser?) then they may well be over 25 years old but, if in good fettle, can still compete with the best.  I only let my own Lambda Pros go to make way for a new pair of Signatures, and frankly there's not a whole lot between them.  Good though Sennheiser HD600s are, they are a fair way off from the best Stax electrostatics.

They are Lambda but not the Pro variant and it is an SRM 1 Mk2 energiser.  I will see if I can drive them from the Superunity sub out RCA outlets.

The SRM1 Mk2 energiser is excellent - one of the best, and well worth sticking with.  The weakest part are the original Lambdas (I take it that they are 6pin type) which run on a lower voltage to the later Pro Earspeakers.  They're good but the Lambda Pros are a big step up in performance.

Been listening to a pair of HD 700's that I picked for the great price of $375 (used). With the V1 and the recent FW update they really are quite mind blowing.  Like you are standing in the middle of the room of the musicians playing, not just in front of. Really outstanding, and the comfort is par none with the 700's. I have TMJ, tinnitus etc and never found phones to be comfortable. I can forget I have them on. The "oh shit!" panic mode that suddenly the speakers are REALLY LOUD and the wife upstairs sleeping is going to kill me. 

charlesphoto posted:

Been listening to a pair of HD 700's that I picked for the great price ... I can forget I have them on. The "oh shit!" panic mode that suddenly the speakers are REALLY LOUD and the wife upstairs sleeping is going to kill me. 

Both points are crucial! The HD 600 is the old King, and no doubt that the higher versions such as the 650 and 700 take replay to an even nicer level, but I have found that an evening of radio, youtube and DVD is easy with the 600s. And yes it is nice to realise that at ten pm you have not annoyed the neighbours with something a bit exhuberant like a Bach Fugue on the pipe-organ! 

Also it is nice that repairs do not involve a huge amount of palaver ...

ATB from George

A week on and used for listening rather than leaving turned on to speed up running in, and I am utterly delighted with the HD 600s. Nothing radical has changed, but the violin tone has gained subtlety for a nice start. And the initially seemingly perfectly effortless dynamic ability has further improved! Something that seemed fine to start with. 

They have a stern comparator here of course, even though currently silent due to a lack of power amp! The ESL. 

This is a fascinating one as generally headphone can see off a speaker costing many times as much! Of course even one second hand ESL is going to cost a lot more than a pair of HD 600s, but they are certainly not disappointingly less fine than one ESL. There is a subtlety to an ESL which no conventional speaker can quite replicate though, even a headphone set.

ATB from George

Hi George, how are the 600s coming along? I am listening to my 650s and Oscar Peterson's Night Train is sounding incredible... Lovely vibe, atmosphere and presence along with great jazz.. What is more remarkable is that it is coming via my IPad Air line out into my Little Dot  3 valve headphone amp.. streaming Tidal lossless...

Very pleased.

Simon

Dear Simon,

Which version of the “Little Dot” headphone amp are you using, please?

ATB from George

Hi George, its the Little Dot 3.

Dear Simon,

Have you tried it as a pre-amp? Though it is a long way into the future - twelve months or more - it might be a way forward for me with a suitable small mono power amp for one ESL. 

ATB from George

George - no I haven't. Currently its on my bedside table - and its my bedroom audio system with my headphones :-)

Interesting thread. But also leaves questions for me. First I have to say I am in the lucky circumstances that I never have  to use headphones in my home situation, so I always listen to my speakers. And I only have earphones at work (Shure 846). 

So so my question now. As many of you spent multiple times more on your main system I am a bit amazed that nobody is talking about the use of top of the line headphones like Sennheiser 800, Akg 812, Ultrasone Edition 5 etc.....

so so why do you guys settle on the 600 or the 650 ?

Dear Simon,

With the Little Dot's selectable gain and reportedly fine ability as a pre-amplifier, I suspect that it would make a sympathetic pre-amp for passing the output of a DAC [working according to my thinking in mono as fixed in the MAC] to something like a Quad 2 or Leak TL 12.1 mono valve amp to feed a single ESL. Both amplifiers are ideally suited to the ESL being Transformer coupled to the speaker, rather than a direct output type such as a conventional transistor amp. ESL has a well earned reputation for smoking most transistor amplifiers [except Naim] with thirty seconds, and this also destroys the speaker. An expensive mistake. Even hybrid valve and transistor amplifiers are susceptible to failure with ESL 57s. Of course in the scheme of things it helps that the ESL [57] was conceived as a mono loudspeaker that just happened to work in stereo quite nicely!

One day, if you have the patience, and you do not think it an unreasonable favour, I wonder if you might mind trying the Little Dot onto a power amp and report your findings. Such esoteric combinations would be very difficult to demonstrate of course. 

In any case any such development for me would be in 2017 and not before. 

And no doubt it would also grip my headphones rather nicely as well!

ATB from George

Bert Schurink posted:

Interesting thread. But also leaves questions for me. First I have to say I am in the lucky circumstances that I never have  to use headphones in my home situation, so I always listen to my speakers. And I only have earphones at work (Shure 846). 

 

So so my question now. As many of you spent multiple times more on your main system I am a bit amazed that nobody is talking about the use of top of the line headphones like Sennheiser 800, Akg 812, Ultrasone Edition 5 etc.....

 

so so why do you guys settle on the 600 or the 650 ?

Price. Pure and simple.

I am struggling to find a justification for very expensive replay in my case. Even going mono more or less halves the cost, and with it some considerable advantage for me in the musical sense as well. I even listen to my HD 600s in mono when it would be perfectly easy to set for stereo.

ATB from George

Bert - yes, price for me too. Headphones are very much secondary to my main listening, and I usually use them while working, so it isn't worth a vast expense. I was going to spend less actually, but drifted upwards through auditioning. The Grados were £250, and a bargain as far as I'm concerned. Real bass lovers might look elsewhere,  but for me they're perfect. 

I have just listened to Elgar’s Polonia in Adrian Boult’s rather fine London Philharmonic recording for HMV. An occasion where Boult lets restraint off the leash to powerful effect.

Yes these HD 600s are really blossoming into something grand. I did not really expect that they would run in very much! A wonderful combination of atmosphere and clarity. Rarely achieved in my experience - where detail so often runs with false sharp edges!

Another thing that I’ll have to learn from is that the headphones are so easily to forget. Earlier I forgot they were on my head when I went brew coffee! And I sometimes want to scratch my ear. Oops, there is a load of kan in the way! 

Very gratifying!

ATB from George

PS: Dear Simon, I made an answer for you a few up, which might easily be missed.

Solid Air posted:

The Grados were £250, and a bargain as far as I'm concerned. Real bass lovers might look elsewhere,  but for me they're perfect. 

I had a pair of Grado 325i and I felt it was the most natural rendering of bass I had ever experienced.  Certainly did not dominant and yet seemed always there at the precise moments required, without drawing any undue attention to it self.  Certainly, in my experience, not the same as live music which in general always has way too much bass for my preferences. Whilst "feeling" bass can be a fun short-term novelty, I personally find it unnatural and have no need of those levels for my music enjoyment.

Only issue I had with the Grados was the "equipment" quality (actually. lack thereof) in my experience.  Earpieces and frames "fell apart" and were difficult to return to proper function, disintegrating ear pads when no environmental or personal hygiene applications were lacking.  They fell apart, simple, with quite gentle usage.  I was perplexed, as I adored the musical qualities.  I moved on to another brand.

Enjoy yours, hopefully your physical experience will be better.  I asked at the time I first acquired  them if anyone on the forum knew of loud speakers with a similar balance.  No one every replied to the particular question.  I can still hear the Grados in me "memory" at times - sublime to me.  regards, Jeff A

George, I will give a try before too long 

Jeff - very interesting, thank you. I haven't had the Grados all that long so there's been no time for any physical degradation. I'll be annoyed if I share your experience there. 

I find the bass very good - as you describe. They remind me of ATC speakers in that respect, and maybe that's why I like them - the bass feels like part of the music. Many speakers and some (generally closed back) 'phones seem to 'do' bass, making it into a big thud. That big thud actually sounds the same regardless of the context or instrument, as if it's saying 'ok, here comes the bass now . . . THUD.' I dislike that entirely. The Grados, like my ATCs, are all about the music - Right now I'm listening to John Martyn's Go Down Easy, and i can hear his fingers on the frets, a slight echo in the studio and the buzzing of the strings. Perfect. 

Solid Air posted:

Jeff - very interesting, thank you. I haven't had the Grados all that long so there's been no time for any physical degradation. I'll be annoyed if I share your experience there. 

I find the bass very good - as you describe. They remind me of ATC speakers in that respect, and maybe that's why I like them - the bass feels like part of the music. Many speakers and some (generally closed back) 'phones seem to 'do' bass, making it into a big thud. That big thud actually sounds the same regardless of the context or instrument, as if it's saying 'ok, here comes the bass now . . . THUD.' I dislike that entirely. The Grados, like my ATCs, are all about the music - Right now I'm listening to John Martyn's Go Down Easy, and i can hear his fingers on the frets, a slight echo in the studio and the buzzing of the strings. Perfect. 

I haven't heard ATC speakers but know they have some avid admirers who I respect on the forum.  If they are very similar with the Grado sound I am envious of your having the best of both mediums.  Enjoy!

I have owned severeal Grado headphones including from thier Prestige range as well as their  IEM range.. I am also an ATC speaker fan.. I do find the presentations very different. To me the Grados do detail, but to me can edge to the slightly thinner than neutral side. and for me sometimes this detracts. The ATCs seem to excel at dynamics, clarity and lack of 'lumpiness' or resonances... You can enjoy the playing of a double bass or a choral masterpiece with minimal unevenness.

For me the Sennheisers give me many of the same musical queues I get from my ATCs, but the headphones give a more intimate and possibly slightly more constrained presentation... which for headphones I like.. They do detail, but not etched.. I recently was listening to The Beatles  on Tidal lossless and I could hear all sorts of low level 'artefacts' in the recording that really brought them to life... John Lenon, or Ringo softly counting into a verse here and a chair or boom being knocked there .. None of these were off putting but you could listen into the recording.. A bit like zooming into a Mandelbrot set... Il like that .. For me the Grados can also do much of this but to my brain and ears not as convincingly or as naturally.

Simon