Sennheiser HD 600 Headphone

I haven't listened in depth to the Senn 650s, only the 600s, so I can't comment on the differences there. What I like about the Grado sr325e is that they have a sort of dynamic transparency. Yes, they are slightly thinner than neutral, but that never feels wrong when listening - it feels like you're in the room with the musicians. I found the 600s to be more 'hi fi' in their presentation; very good, and probably better balanced, but I never got lost in the music in quite the same way. 

My ATC SCM11 speakers have a similar effect for me as the Grados; being a sealed box design and stand mounted they don't have a big bass wallop, but they do have that dynamic transparency and a sense that you're there for the music, not the hi fi. I auditioned a vast array of speakers (in my price range) before choosing the ATCs, and very few had anything close to the same effect - most just sounded like hi fi (I would pick out the PMC 20.22 and, oddly, the Linn 109s in this respect, although the Linns lacked bass). For me, the Grado sr325e 'phones do that too.

For me, the AKG 701s bettered the HD-650s, which I loved when I got them.  My experience was the 650s sounded nearly identical to much-cheaper HD-595s, plugged straight into a MacBook Pro.  Add a modest headphone amp/DAC and the 650s justified their higher price.

Now that my ears are ignoring HF more than they used to, the AKGs sound more true to life.  Grados, though I admire them, are still too shrill for me.

Tried Audeze recently -- fantastic!  But so are my AKGs, for reasonable money.

Love the forum for all the shared experience.

Nick

I have a Little Dot Mk. 3 headphone amplifier to go with my HD 600s.

A splendid combination. 

I connected up at about half six [pm] yesterday, and it is without flaw as far as I can tell. No obvious change in quality so far, which I find re-assuring. Right straight out of the starting blocks.

The LD also makes a good pre-amp for the Tivoli radio. 

ATB from George

PS: Draws about twenty five Watts with or without an input signal, so not a an ecological disaster either. Runs about ten o’clock on the volume control. Will go far too loud, so plenty of spare capacity to make a clean signal to the headphones.

Warms up in less than twenty seconds. Runs for about thirty seconds after turning off.

Ahh, congrats 

Now you will find it will definitely settle in over time... Valves literally do burn in..so do expect the tonal balance to change over the first 60 hours or so...

There then is the option of using different valves for a different performance (called valve rolling).. But there lies the path of yet another obsession, and the stock valves are pretty good...

But glad you are enjoying it.. I think it's a smashing bit of kit.. that doesn't cost a fortune..

PS do check the jumpers are set for high impedance headphones so as to match the 600s. getting this right gets the best from the amp and 'phones.

Simon

Dear Simon,

I believe the two small valves are General Electric and the bigger pair are Russian. The Russians have some expertise that we in the West may [should] admire, such as the ability to build rockets that work for the International Space Station long after the USA has stopped blowing up astronauts with their Shuttle. No doubt that they know how to make power stage valves for a small headphone amp, even if many would think two pairs of quality NPN/PNP transistors would serve better, but the cake is tested in the eating!

I am not going to do valve rolling, but will certainly buy some spare standard issue valves. This piece is a keeper in standard form!

Best wishes from George

PS: Jumpers correctly set fot the Senns! I read the short booklet as I cannot guess at what is right!!!! 

Hi George, good stuff, yes the little Russian driver valves I use were originally designed, so I understand, for signal amplifiers for Russian rocket guidance systems... but anyway they sound good 

what do you feed into the Little Dot ? I feed the line out of my iPad Air and am genuinely surprised how good it sounds....

As a matter of interest, and I apologise if off topic, but does anyone know if it is possible to connect a head phone amp to a supernait 2?

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Hi George, good stuff, yes the little Russian driver valves I use were originally designed, so I understand, for signal amplifiers for Russian rocket guidance systems... but anyway they sound good 

what do you feed into the Little Dot ? I feed the line out of my iPad Air and am genuinely surprised how good it sounds....

It is an asynchronous USB Denon DAC that has a fairly limited headphone amp but a good line out. I got this one second hand.

It was interesting to find that while the Denon drives the HD 600 to a reasonable level at nearly flat out the LD has a great deal of spare power. It shows in the results! Chalk and cheese.

As I say the LD is certainly a keeper!

Best wishes from George

dayjay posted:

As a matter of interest, and I apologise if off topic, but does anyone know if it is possible to connect a head phone amp to a supernait 2?

Probably on the tape out. Not quite up to date on whether the SN2 has a tape out though.

Best wishes from George

George Fredrik Fiske posted:

I am not going to do valve rolling

Best wishes from George

Yeah shure!...  Enjoy 

Solid Air posted:

Jeff - very interesting, thank you. I haven't had the Grados all that long so there's been no time for any physical degradation. I'll be annoyed if I share your experience there. 

 

The only issue I've had with Grado's is at about 8-10 years the black ear covers seem to disintegrate. i.e. when you took them off there were black bits on your ears.  There is obviously some degree of 'half life' in them, but visually all looked well. But they offer replacements and they are easy to do, I see it as no different than having to service Naim equipment every 10 years, just a lot cheaper :-)

That said I think the design on the Sennheiser 280 headphones really poor that in 3 years, of putting on/off there was plastic fatigue and cracking on the head band above the ear cups, something the 600's addressed by using metal...

George Fredrik Fiske posted:

dayjay posted:

As a matter of interest, and I apologise if off topic, but does anyone know if it is possible to connect a head phone amp to a supernait 2?

Probably on the tape out. Not quite up to date on whether the SN2 has a tape out though.

No tape out on the SN2 as George says. Seems plausible that using the hdd and Mute would work for a HP amp, but best to contact Naim before making the connection.

The Little Dot has nearly thirty hours on it, and yes, as Simon noted, the run in process is somewhat different to transistors in thermionic valves. The change is less apparent at first. It was as beautiful after twelve hours as from the very start but obviously changed at all, but it is now growing the kind of subtlety with timbres that are so much part of music making with classical instruments as to place it in a class of fine replay pieces. 

All the normal classical instruments have a wide range of timbres under the control of the player, and these are used in the service of expression. The use of timbral control is every bit as much part of musicality on the part of the performer as dynamics and rhythm. For rhythm also consider the importance in ensemble playing of the interaction between players. 

The Little Dot and the HD 600s bring these aspects out with an even hand, nothing made more important than any other musical aspect. 

But the quality is enough to raise the hairs on the back of the neck in its sheer expressive beauty. 

Can it boogie? Well it does with the live recording of Dire Straits in the Mandela Concert from Wembley all those years ago, but not at the expense of atmosphere or occasion! this is now the only pop-music I have at hand, but I remember the concert and enjoy it occasionally as a piece of nostalgia from different times!

I am guessing many would find this arrangement somewhat the polite side of exciting, but I must say that I like the excitement in the music and performance! Not just applied by replay! Replay only need concern itself with relaying the excitement [or solemnity] that is the music in the first place.

This is very pleasing. I am guessing from what Simon says that I may expect even more over the next thirty hours of music played on it!

ATB from George

The Little Dot seems lovely. I've always wanted something with valves, and it's not even super-pricey.

With headphones, I currently listen in my home office. So I connect my 'phones to a Dragonfly DAC generally, from my standard Dell laptop. How would a Little Dot figure in that set-up, and would it improve the sound? Subjective I know, but I'm interested in your experience.

In my humble opinion, the Little Dot is so fine that it defies its price point. It is so inexpensive that it become irresistible if you want a good headphone amp. At the price you could replace the whole thing regularly rather than repair!

But the case runs cool as a cucumber, and the only hot parts are the valves. And they simply unplug for replacement.

So it seems likely that a long service life is the order of the day ...

As a contained unit you do not have to worry about a separate power supply; all you need is mains electricity in, line level in, and a decent headphone set ...

ATB from George

Solid Air posted:

The Little Dot seems lovely. I've always wanted something with valves, and it's not even super-pricey.

With headphones, I currently listen in my home office. So I connect my 'phones to a Dragonfly DAC generally, from my standard Dell laptop. How would a Little Dot figure in that set-up, and would it improve the sound? Subjective I know, but I'm interested in your experience.

 

Hi, I have both a Dragonfly Mk2.DAC and Little Dot 3 headphone amp. The Dragonfly (as a headphone amp) is quite good.. certainly detail and good resolution there.. But the Little Dot 3 is in a different league, certainly with high impedance headphones... You get the detail, emotion, timing and insight, but with a lovely organic warmth.. The degree of warmth or lack of it can be chosen by changing the driver valves..but I find the stock valves certainly a good place to start, although I have changed my drivers for my 650s to give a bit of extra bite.

However .. The LD3 is not portable and requires the mains.... Clearly the Dragonfly is uber portable and powered by the USB port. I have found the LD3 less convincing with very low impedance headphones, despite the current jumper settings..

Simon

Thanks Simon.

I'm fairly new to using headphones - beyond cheapies on a phone - so the whole thing about impedance passed me by. I'm now doing some investigation, and boy . . . the HD 600 is hard to drive! 300 ohms I believe, as opposed to the Grados 32 ohms. No wonder the Senns need a headphone amp. 

Still, I'm tempted by the Little Dot on an aesthetic basis alone. It's like steampunk art. Love that thing.

The Little Dot continues to blossom. Warmth without even a hint of slowness [hanging onto strong or bass notes], and timbres to be imagined and hoped for. Old recordings are shown as splendid and new ones are remarkable. Musical balances are needle sharp, sometimes revealing more than anything before ...

It is notable that there is no hardness or edginess on any classical recording that I have, and vocal sibilance is entirely natural - though it exists in natural proportion ... Yet the balance is as bright as real music making! 

At a power consumption of less than 30 Watts, it is rather lean on consumption compared to transistor amplifiers that apparently need to be left on full time to sound near their best! 

Very gratifying.

Not remotely hair shirt!

ATB from George

George - I was listening to an Elton John playlist on Tidal today into LD3 and 650s and I could hear the tape compression and soft clipping on various 70s tracks it was fascinating - and I could really appreciate Elton John's vocal style and phrasing. Some of his 70s early 80s tracks are a little thin on vocal tonal balance - but the LD3 and 650 seem to provide a more convincing balance whilst still providing that distinctive thin balance to his vocal recording

Dear Simon,

This combination goes from strength to strength. I have been watching Tinker, Taylor, Soldier, Spy in the BBC adaptation with Alec Guinness. The open fire in the scene at Lacon’s house before interrogating Ricky Tarr has never shown through before - we all know what an open wood fire sounds like, and here it is just as if we were in the room with the characters!

Certainly there is more detail in this replay than anything previously has revealed! But this resolution is gently delivered. Far from being “in your face.” Just so full of naturalness. If it can do this with a relatively old video sound track, I can but imagine what delights are to be discovered over the coming months listening to my music. 

I listened to the B Minor Mass this afternoon in the Leonhardt recording. The sense of occasion is such that I can forget the process of replay altogether for the duration. This is hardly a superb recording but the performance is from the top draw, and the sense of revelation - rather than drawing attention to itself in the manner of some replay - is simply enveloping and immediately involving. Quite a trick to pull off.

It is peculiar because for the last week I have been vacillating about the ESLs. I am beginning to think they are rendered redundant by this combo. Because it digs so deep into the music I find it easy to listen suitably quietly for a long piece like the Bach Mass ... 

I would be quite happy to abandon speaker replay as there is always the risk of annoying the neighbours, even at quiet levels. 

With headphones on I am oblivious to the occasional noise that comes the other way!

I think it's about the end of the road for me regarding replay. It seems strange that so little expense can eclipse the ESLs. I did not see that coming. And I preferred them to any previous loudspeaker ...

I did try out my little [more or less £10] pair of closed back Sony headphones, and suddenly I am reminded how big the difference is. Shocking really.

ATB from George

I have enjoyed my Senn 650's for a couple of years now but not as much as I have in the past couple of months.

I bought a headphone amp (Schiit Mjolnir 2) which allowed me to use the phones in a fully balanced environment.  The cables on the 650's are easily replaceable for a balanced XLR cable purchased either from Sennheiser direct or from third parties using Cardas cables.  

The difference in the music is really quite remarkable.  The bass tightened up appreciably, individual instruments more distinct and the music became far more engaging overall.   

All in all a great step up from listening single ended.

Yes, I think the headphone amp / headphone coupling really makes a huge difference to how effective the solution works. I use single ground as all my interconnects and leads are short and my LD3 amp is designed for unbalanced line in... but if different then balanced certainly helps remove ground modulation in long leads.

I listened to a few Schiit headphone amps a few months back and was quite impressed.. 

But I agree with George it is a revaltion how  incredibly good and musically satisfying audio replay can be without having to pay a lot for it.. certainly with headphones.

Simon

Dear John W- and Simon,

I certainly do realise that there are different and better options which I have not auditioned, but certainly I have undershot the budget, and overshot my expectations! That is a nice position to find myself in. 

Another good thing that I had not expected or foreseen was that the pre-amp output of the Little Dot 3 is so much better than the direct line out on the DAC. This is at least possibly explained because the line out of the LD is adjusted in a range from unattentuated to silent. Thus I can feed the the tivoli with an optimal strength somewhat shy of full line level. 

Of course the Tivoli is my longest surviving piece of replay, still doing sterling service fifteen or sixteen years since I bought it new. It has been used on almost everyday since, only with gaps for holidays away! 

ATB from George

Selling my loudspeakers takes me back to the childhood days of listening to Radio Three evening concerts with a simple headphone after going to bed. Good memories for sure!

Full circle in a way ...

ATB from George