What speakers do you have?

Anto68 posted:

awn posted:

Just got some stands for my Elacs

 

My choice was for PMC 20 21 but after a thorough test with other bookshelf speakers like Sonus Faber 2.0 Harbeth P3ESR, Totem Rainmaker including the ELAC BS 403, I was particularly struck by the amazing quality of BS 263.

I had never heard ELAC, was an extraordinary surprise

This was my first time hearing Elac as well, not many dealers in my area. I didn't try as many as you did, but I have always been a fan of totem and had them on my list as well. One listen to these Elacs and I had to keep them .. I like that I no longer need any subs, the bass these things produce are amazing for a speaker of this size. 

I confirm. In my case the ELAC are perfect for the way I listen to music. Listen jazz and classical music is an extraordinary experience
The bass go deeper but the midrange is the best: for example voices and piano are played with an incredible fidelity. 

One thing that amazes me in this thread is the number of people who seem to be content with curtailed bass, having speakers that roll off significantly well above the fundamentals of common instruments, let alone those at the very bottom. It seems to me that the quest for speed and rhythym has somehow seduced people away from realism, to the extent that I wonder how many listen to live music and seek to have something similar in their homes.

Also of interest is the number of people apparently wanting those bottom octaves but content to use a suvwoofer to achieve it, rather than full range speakers. My own impression is that subs tend to not have the speed and control most people desire frem bass, so it seems that some odd compromise is going on. 

Inevitably cost comes into it, as trulty fulll range speakers with. Well controlled bass tend to be expensive,  yet the tendency seems to be to focus the least proportion of system cost at the speakers. Clearly i have a different view of system balance to the majority...!

Kiwi cat posted:

joerand posted:

Totem Sttafs. A constant in my system from the get-go. Various Totem speaker users here - they work great with Naim - but I may be the lone Sttaf-er?

I love the Sttafs and would have bought them if 2nd  hand Ovator 400s hadn't turned up. The Sttafs bass response and articulation are stunning for a speaker their size and price. Did you put lead shot in the base?

Hi Kiwi,

No, I never felt a need to put shot in the base. I've had success tuning the bass with distance from the front wall - mine are 20 inches out. Setting them on a heavy plinth tightened up the sound even more.  Interesting you went with 400s. I just sent my dealer a message last night to see if he has a demo pair available.

Linn Keilidhs (very late model and great vfm). S400s on the wish list after a 250. I like full bass, and I do listen to a lot of live music.

Interesting comment about subs. I find twin subs driven by  a dedicated bridged mono power amp work best, but I am talking PA rather than domestic HiFi. I use active MK subs (sadly no longer trading) in a couple of surround sound setups, which add scale, dynamism and, therefore, a touch of realism too!

joerand posted:

Kiwi cat posted:

joerand posted:

Totem Sttafs. A constant in my system from the get-go. Various Totem speaker users here - they work great with Naim - but I may be the lone Sttaf-er?

I love the Sttafs and would have bought them if 2nd  hand Ovator 400s hadn't turned up. The Sttafs bass response and articulation are stunning for a speaker their size and price. Did you put lead shot in the base?

Hi Kiwi,

No, I never felt a need to put shot in the base. I've had success tuning the bass with distance from the front wall - mine are 20 inches out. Setting them on a heavy plinth tightened up the sound even more.  Interesting you went with 400s. I just sent my dealer a message last night to see if he has a demo pair available.

Hey joerand,

So, you are thinking of checking out the Ovator 400's? That sounds like an interesting move. I will be curious to see what you think of them in your system and your room. I've been down to the dealer when I was auditioning my Allaes and some Devores and saw the Ovators but never heard them.

Anto68 posted:

awn posted:

Just got some stands for my Elacs

 

My choice was for PMC 20 21 but after a thorough test with other bookshelf speakers like Sonus Faber 2.0 Harbeth P3ESR, Totem Rainmaker including the ELAC BS 403, I was particularly struck by the amazing quality of BS 263.

I had never heard ELAC, was an extraordinary surprise

awn

nice pic..

do you use the subwoofer ?

have you considered another place for it besides its present enclosed location ?

Gary,

 Just heard back - dealer doesn't have a pair but is checking with distributor. I've heard the 400s and 600s, but never in my home. Hopefully I'll be able to arrange a home demo and report back in the next month.

SN2 > Dynaudio Focus 260

(A lot of PMC love here!)

mpw posted:

Anto68 posted:

awn posted:

Just got some stands for my Elacs

 

My choice was for PMC 20 21 but after a thorough test with other bookshelf speakers like Sonus Faber 2.0 Harbeth P3ESR, Totem Rainmaker including the ELAC BS 403, I was particularly struck by the amazing quality of BS 263.

I had never heard ELAC, was an extraordinary surprise

awn

 

nice pic..

 

do you use the subwoofer ?

 

have you considered another place for it besides its present enclosed location ?

 

 

Thanks mpw. That sub is no longer in use. I had dual 8s running in those locations when I had my maggies and that one is now just taking up space. They worked well in those locations, surprisingly. But I no longer need them with the Elacs. 

joe9407 posted:

joe9407 posted:

Actual: DeVore Gibbon 8. 

one owner, gently used.

That is not a DeVore Gibbon 8 , it's a DeVore Cat 1!

Naim Gary posted:

joerand posted:

Kiwi cat posted:

joerand posted:

Totem Sttafs. A constant in my system from the get-go. Various Totem speaker users here - they work great with Naim - but I may be the lone Sttaf-er?

I love the Sttafs and would have bought them if 2nd  hand Ovator 400s hadn't turned up. The Sttafs bass response and articulation are stunning for a speaker their size and price. Did you put lead shot in the base?

Hi Kiwi,

No, I never felt a need to put shot in the base. I've had success tuning the bass with distance from the front wall - mine are 20 inches out. Setting them on a heavy plinth tightened up the sound even more.  Interesting you went with 400s. I just sent my dealer a message last night to see if he has a demo pair available.

Hey joerand,

So, you are thinking of checking out the Ovator 400's? That sounds like an interesting move. I will be curious to see what you think of them in your system and your room. I've been down to the dealer when I was auditioning my Allaes and some Devores and saw the Ovators but never heard them.

In my experience the main difference between the Sttafs and their bigger brother, the Hawks,compared to the 400s, was the lack of any boxy coloration with the 400s. The Totems have a wonderful tight bass presence and are very exciting to listen to. The 400s seem to be more self effacing with a more neutral sound signature and really need high quality electronics eg superuniti level and upwards to show their best.

I have not used plinths with the Ovators as that sit on carpet over a concrete floor.

I loved the Hawks on demo at the dealer but got the impression they'd have too much bass pressure for my room. As for home demos of amplification with the Sttafs; the Brio-R made the tweeters screech, Unity was nicer, Nait XS was good for a time but lacked overall command, SN2 seems the charm. Sttafs feed off of power. My want to demo the 400s in my room is to try the BMR dispersion, get a hint at the non-traditional x-over level, and try the sealed, controlled bass I've grown to appreciate to from Naim speakers. Neutral sound for sure, something I like. I have no doubt the SN2 will pair well with the 400s.

I think I'm only the 4th person on this thread to admit to owning a pair of these (Naim Audio NBLs):

By the way, I'm adoring the pictures of the SBLs that people are posting. 

Clive B posted:

 

By the way, I'm adoring the pictures of the SBLs that people are posting. 

We have a good per square klm concentration here. My friend's black pair.

And I'm now the fifth on the NBL front. Clive, unless they are mile apart, they look overly toed in to me but I guess you will be the judge.

My long serving SBLs recently made way for a pair of oak Kudos Super 20s.

Other speakers in the house are original Linn Kans on MKII stands and a borrowed pair of Royd Minstrels 

joerand posted:

I loved the Hawks on demo at the dealer but got the impression they'd have too much bass pressure for my room. As for home demos of amplification with the Sttafs; the Brio-R made the tweeters screech, Unity was nicer, Nait XS was good for a time but lacked overall command, SN2 seems the charm. Sttafs feed off of power. My want to demo the 400s in my room is to try the BMR dispersion, get a hint at the non-traditional x-over level, and try the sealed, controlled bass I've grown to appreciate to from Naim speakers. Neutral sound for sure, something I like. I have no doubt the SN2 will pair well with the 400s.

joerand,

I know what you mean when you describe Naim speakers as having a neutral sound. I had a pair of Intros on the end of my system for 15 years and loved them. When I upgraded some of my electronics this past year the Intros started showing some signs of holding back the sound.

When I was listening to the Allaes that I wound up purchasing I listened to the Devore Gibbon 8's for a comparison as the 2 sets of speakers were just about the same price, 2nd hand, at my dealers. I liked the sound of the Devores. One of my good friends runs them on the end of his Naim system and I always like the sound they give. As much as they sounded warm, fun and nice when I went back to the Naim speakers for me the Allaes sounded fast, yet at ease, and just "precise" in a way tough to describe. Been enjoying playing with them in my house for a couple of months now.

I am curious - not that I am taking any more action in the speaker department for now - how the Ovator 400's would sound in my room.

Looking forward to your report when you get some in your place.

Gary

I have generally used speakers for many years once I own them.    When I was in college and bought my first speakers; the famous Large Advents in the 70's, I used and enjoyed them for many years.    They were not ideal for a perennial student though, as they were too large to be easily used in many of the apartments I lived in at that time.    

While I flirted with smaller speakers, I didn't do anything about owning a pair until I fell in love with a pair of the Linn Kan II"s in the 90's.    These I partnered with my first Naim systems and they grew alongside the other improvements I was able to make in my system over about an eight year period.   I still retain these as they are so small that they come in handy for various reasons; personal and professional.   

When it became clear to me that the Kan's were not an ideal fit for my largish listening room, I purchased a pair of the then current B & W Nautilus 804's which I used and enjoyed for @ 6 years.    Moving to a three way speaker with a nearly full range sound was a huge upgrade for me, and allowed me to enjoy a much wider cross section of my music library than the Kan's had allowed for- even when partnered by very high end sources and electronics.

When I was in a position to afford a better speaker than the B & W's I chose to purchase an Avalon Acoustics loudspeaker called the Opus Ceramique, which I still use today, almost ten years later.     These speakers combine many of the elements I had enjoyed with my other speakers; the speed and dynamic life of the Kan's, the more natural and complete tonality I enjoyed with the B & W's and before that my Advents.    Avalon speakers also do many other things well that my other speakers could only hint at so they will be hard to displace in my listening room unless.....

Good listening,

Bruce

Kudos C10s, now connected to a 250.2 and I'm beginning to see why that (specially developed for Kudos) SEAS Crescendo tweeter is regarded so highly.  

Languishing in the loft are some Dynaudio Audience 40s, Royd Minstrels and QLN 601s.

Innocent Bystander posted:

One thing that amazes me in this thread is the number of people who seem to be content with curtailed bass, having speakers that roll off significantly well above the fundamentals of common instruments, let alone those at the very bottom. It seems to me that the quest for speed and rhythym has somehow seduced people away from realism, to the extent that I wonder how many listen to live music and seek to have something similar in their homes.

Also of interest is the number of people apparently wanting those bottom octaves but content to use a suvwoofer to achieve it, rather than full range speakers. My own impression is that subs tend to not have the speed and control most people desire frem bass, so it seems that some odd compromise is going on. 

Inevitably cost comes into it, as trulty fulll range speakers with. Well controlled bass tend to be expensive,  yet the tendency seems to be to focus the least proportion of system cost at the speakers. Clearly i have a different view of system balance to the majority...!

All speakers are a compromise, and none sound much like genuinely live music - not so that you could be fooled whether you're listening to a live performance or speakers. And of course, the less money you're able or willing to spend, the greater the compromise. In making those choices, for some, speed and rhythm is more important than bass extension, largely, I suspect, because it's not realism they're yearning for, but emotion. Put another way, Gerhard Richter's painting of his daughter entitled Betty seems so true to life, but it's not a photo, it's a painting, and that gives it a vivacity and a joy that a photo could never capture. Realism isn't everything.

Solid Air posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

One thing that amazes me in this thread is the number of people who seem to be content with curtailed bass, having speakers that roll off significantly well above the fundamentals of common instruments, let alone those at the very bottom. It seems to me that the quest for speed and rhythym has somehow seduced people away from realism, to the extent that I wonder how many listen to live music and seek to have something similar in their homes.

Also of interest is the number of people apparently wanting those bottom octaves but content to use a suvwoofer to achieve it, rather than full range speakers. My own impression is that subs tend to not have the speed and control most people desire frem bass, so it seems that some odd compromise is going on. 

Inevitably cost comes into it, as trulty fulll range speakers with. Well controlled bass tend to be expensive,  yet the tendency seems to be to focus the least proportion of system cost at the speakers. Clearly i have a different view of system balance to the majority...!

All speakers are a compromise, and none sound much like genuinely live music - not so that you could be fooled whether you're listening to a live performance or speakers. And of course, the less money you're able or willing to spend, the greater the compromise. In making those choices, for some, speed and rhythm is more important than bass extension, largely, I suspect, because it's not realism they're yearning for, but emotion. Put another way, Gerhard Richter's painting of his daughter entitled Betty seems so true to life, but it's not a photo, it's a painting, and that gives it a vivacity and a joy that a photo could never capture. Realism isn't everything.

 

Regarding realism, an age ago i ran a mobile rock disco (making money out of playing music I liked as loud as i wanted!) On one occasion a group of people entering a venue came over, genuinely surprised, because from outside they thought it sounded like a live gig. But those speakers were horn loaded mid and top. They were  very efficient - i ran them with my hifi Radford amp, and on one occasion someone asked "what power are you running? 2k? 3k?, and wouldnt believe it when I said 50 wpc. But that's an aside, because if nothing else they simply don't fit in a living room.

I agree that all speakers are compromises, and from my own experience even at a moderately expensive price point there is such difference in character of the sound that, at least to me, they make greater differnce to the sound the listener hears than any other single component.

And i accept that not everyone craves realism, apparently more turned on by PRaT, which perhaps shouldnt be surprising as that's a primary  Naimism - curiously, jazz seems to be a favoured genre, so perhaps its unsurprising that its a genre i really cant stand.

Based on my own listening, i feel that a far greater proportion of system budget needs to be spent on speakers to get something decent sounding than any other component - which brings me back to my expressed surprise at the preponderence of what to me appear to be quite restrictive speakers. It seems that on this forum a relatively small proportion feel (hear!) the same way as me - though there is certainly a sprinkling of speakers that i anticipate are likely to sound great, there is a much greater proportion that to me don't.

Innocent Bystander posted:

Based on my own listening, i feel that a far greater proportion of system budget needs to be spent on speakers to get something decent sounding than any other component - which brings me back to my expressed surprise at the preponderence of what to me appear to be quite restrictive speakers. It seems that on this forum a relatively small proportion feel (hear!) the same way as me - though there is certainly a sprinkling of speakers that i anticipate are likely to sound great, there is a much greater proportion that to me don't.

Think most people have to compromise because of domestic living arrangements too.  Whether that is sharing a room with others less enthusiastic over huge speakers, or simply not having a room large enough to accommodate them.

i do agree with your assessment that in the modern equation the speakers tend to be the most expensive part to get right, though it's still important to have a good source and amplification to get the best out of the speakers.

I guess I like the oldies

- Linn PMS (With In Stand crossover)

- Linn Sara

- Quad 57

- Quad 63

Peter W posted:

Proac D30R, ebony.

Nice. 

D40R myself. Rosewood though. Love the ebony.