Ripping Yarns 2
Posted by: Mr Underhill on 28 May 2011
Hi,
Last time I left you at this point:
..... I have thousands of LPs. Many are not available on CD.....
..... [My recorder has] three selectable input levels, [and all of them are] over-load [ed by my pre-amp]
..... Not using my pre amp means that I have to apply RIAA after the fact,....
..... Overall I think this is a painful process.
..... and then probably only carry this out with vinyl that I can't get on CD to be honest - life is just too short!
..... But when I can record using Tom De P. phono section I might be open to persuasion!
So, in brief - I solved the pre-amp issue, and I have been recording more LPs digitally; so thought I'd write a brief update, and answer the following questions:
1. Are the recordings via the pre-amp section better than applying RIAA after the fact?
Not always
2. Are LP rips better than CD rips?
Not always
3. Will I continue to rip LPs?
Err, not always!
1. Are the recordings via the pre-amp section better than applying RIAA after the fact?
Where I have got a good rip direct, w/o the pre-amp, the pre-amp hasn't improved matters - this has happened once.
On the whole it is far easier to get a well saturated recording using the phono section of my pre-amp.
2. Are LP rips better than CD rips?
Generally they are the best rips I have, BUT - it comes down to the quality of the source material.
Two examples:
High Society
Mono recording that I ripped. Vinyl full of pops and clicks.
Somehow, when played back through the turntable these defects are FAR less intrusive. Via a digital file they are a complete distraction.
So I bought the CD.
The quality of the recording on the CD was truly appalling. The bass was better, but the backing musicians sounded as though they has been recorded in a lavatory.
I went back to the LP, and invested a lot of time cleaning the tracks - worked, and now sounds good.
--Principal 1: If you have an historic record it is probably worth investing your time capturing the tracks and repairing them.
The Kick Inside:
Clean vinyl. Not a first generation pressing.
Ought to have been a good transfer.
Bad pressing. Poor quality rip - a CD track of 'The Man With a Child in his Eyes' was far better.
--Principal 2: Source quality counts - not the medium.
3. Will I continue to rip LPs?
Bearing in mind the Principles above - absolutely.
I just ripped Stokowski's Beethoven Decca 4 pressing of 5th and 9th symphonies ....and deleted them,
Via the turntable they are fine. Digitally the pops and clicks abound.
I have a number of versions digitally already, and so will not invest time cleaning the files.
The best LP rips I have to date include:
Guacho
Sheffield Steel
The Dreaming
Moving Pictures
Out of the Blue
Made in Japan
The Living Years
True
Let It Be, Naked
Born in the USA .......
Great rips - beating the 9624 files I have bought commercially. Why? For me the quality of the vocals echoes what I get from the turntable.
Turntable -vs- Digital
Generally I would say playing the LP helps me just concentrate on the music, it is far kinder with defective LPs, not highlighting the problems.
Digital replay resolves far more detail, including any issues on the source LP. Where the source is clean the effect can be spectacularly good.
Looking at the captured files there is content well above 20k KHz, although very diminished.
Spending time working out how best to clean my historic pressings - working on Oscar Peterson first!
M
Hi Hook,
Got to say the current batch of Jazz LPs I'm handling are all Verve, and generally pretty crackly. The turntable handles this far more sympathetically.
As they are mono my main method for cleaning them is to pick the cleaner mono track, and double it - pretty effective.
Brilliant idea Mr. U. I, too, have hundreds of mono records and would not have thought of this. Thank you!
I'm playing with a couple of other methods.
Audacity is a great piece of open source software.
I did not have much luck with Audacity, so am playing around with Twistedwave. The latest stable release of Audacity would not open my 24/192 wav files. The latest beta would, but I grew frustrated with its "export" model of saving changes. Twistedwave, at least, let me directly edit and save basic changes (removing dead air from begin/end of songs). But even that is tedious....there has to be a way to automate it!
Got my wife to have a listen to the LP rip - vs - CD rip of High Society; she picked the LP rip, despite far more surface noise.
With PCM I would generally pick the turntable over the rip - despite the the more obvious resolution - BUT, I love the handiness of digital files.
Had a friend over this week to listen to some music, and being able to jump around the collection is great - LPs are not quiet so handy.
Love Over Gold sounds like heaven to me, my penalty was Cliff Richard!
My sincere sympathies, but a small sacrifice given the noble goals of the project! 
My Mrs. repeated her results with Love Over Gold's "Industrial Disease". She said she focused in on snare drum, and said the vinyl sounded more real/sharp/clear/life-like versus the 24/192 wav and/or flac files.
So last time, the sax was the giveaway, and this time the snare. This second time around, she also did better at picking out the DSD versus the vinyl (4 of 6, 4 of 6, and 5 of 6 correct in three trials).
So Cliff Richard or no, we clearly married a couple of very patient sweethearts!
Got to say I would love to have a go with the Korg. DSD -vs- PCM is an interesting debate, and you can't argue with your own ears listening via your own system.
I'm keeping an eye on eBay.
This paper is what caused me to take flyer on it....
http://www.korg.com/services/products/mr/Future_Proof_Recording_Explained.pdf
It convinced me that recoding in 1-bit brought advantages, regardless of whether it, or a PCM conversion, was ultimately used for playback.
I have an email into Korg. I read that they are about to release full-fledged DAW (new acro to me -- Digital Audio Workstation) software. They only options I have found for directly editing .dsf files cost many thousands of dollars. So, unless things change, I will keep a "raw" DSD needledrop (a single 5.6Mhz DSD (i.e., .dsf) file for each album, and a folder of "cooked" 24/192 flac files for each album. Even if Mrs. Golden Ears can pick out a difference, the latter is still very, very good. I heard nothing that would stop me from enjoying an evening of listening. And I am hoping there is still room for improvement by replacing my PC music server with an NDX (or, like you did, with an NS01), to front-end my DAC/555PS.
Just been up in the loft swapping over a new batch of LPs for ripping.
My plan is to keep the recorder running, and continue building up a folder of raw DSD needledrops. Right now, the cooking is way too tedious for me using only tools like Twistedwave. Am hoping to find software that can make some intelligent decisions on dead air removal, and perhaps some pop/click editing...without killing overall dynamics. Next up is Pure Vinyl, then Goldwave, then who knows.....
Bank Holiday weekend over here, getting a few albums digitised,
M
Today is Memorial Day in the US...the one "holiday" that has never felt much like a holiday to me. Never served in the armed forces, but I try and be appreciative of those who have, and those who do today.
I also don't make a habit of listening to politician's speeches, but I did catch Obama at the Queen's dinner. I must admit, when he spoke of the US/UK shared heritage, and specifically the sacrifices made during World War II, I was very moved.
My Dad served in Europe, a survivor of the Battle of the Bulge. My closest Uncle growing up was a destroyer Captain during the Battle of Leyte Gulf. Lost a good friend and mentor in Vietnam. Also have a few acquaintances, and one neighbor in uniform today. Lastly, have a brother-in-law, ex-army, who is now a contractor in Iraq.
Yeah, not a holiday so much, but definitely a day of remembrance. So many guys and gals have given so much, so that I can sit home, safely, and enjoy something as silly as recording vinyl....
There sure is a lot to be grateful for today!
Hook
Fatcat,
I didn't bother to listen. I opened it in Audacity, to have a gander first, and saw this:
As you can see the file is 16bit 44.1KHz.
Unfortunately it is clipping massively.
Can you manage the input signal?
Audacity can repair clipping, but as over-recorded as this is I wouldn't, and so I didn't.
When I have tried to repair recordings like this the effect has been very audible.
M
Fatcat,
I didn't bother to listen. I opened it in Audacity, to have a gander first, and saw this:
As you can see the file is 16bit 44.1KHz.
Unfortunately it is clipping massively.
Can you manage the input signal?
Audacity can repair clipping, but as over-recorded as this is I wouldn't, and so I didn't.
When I have tried to repair recordings like this the effect has been very audible.
M
M
Thanks for the advice.
How did you manage to get the red bits to appear. I've opened the WAV and the original in audacity, but I see only blue. I've just ripped a Rory Gallagher LP. I suspect this will be heavily clipped, there's not a lot of white on view, only blue. I've burned it to a CDR and played it the car CD player, it sounds pretty good.