Most expensive wine in the world

"Some of you are assuming that this guy doesn't already donate to charity"

Phil,

I think Sniper, Bruce and I are the only ones who've suggested that there may be a moral question about buying such expensive luxury goods. Sniper and I have both explicitly stated that the guy who bought the wine might give a great deal of money  to charity for all we know.  Bruce certainly said nothing that assumed that he didn't. I said very clearly that I wasn't in a position to judge him because I didn't have all the facts and I would say that was implied by what Sniper wrote also. It seems in fact that none of us are assuming that he doesn't donate to charity. Maybe we're not such children after all.

FWIW I'm not persuaded that the percentage of someone's income such a purchase represents is the most important factor. I suppose I feel that what they do with the rest of it,and how they got it in the first place would be more relevant. In the case of the guy who bought the wine, I know nothing about either of those things which is why I've been so careful not to judge him.

Rod

I tend to spend about £10 a bottle for wine these days. Occasionally I will pay £30 to £40 for a bottle of Nuits St George.

At present I have been buying bottles of some Australian red from 2009 at Waitrose at £9.99 and it really is quite pleasant - even the kids liked it.

Otherwise I tend to buy from BBR simply because they are nearby and tend to be reliable. Their Burgundy reds at c£10 are very pleasant and even their "house red" at c£5 (if you buy a case) is good - although it seems to vary from year to year from a light Burgundy to a heavy Bordeaux.

However, I tend to agree that the £5 bottles from Waitrose, Sainsbury etc are best left on the shelf if funds are tight and half as much of the £10 stuff is far more enjoyable.

Any recommendations for a c.£10 red from Waitrose? - I appreciate that to your goodself this is a bit like asking in the Niam HIFI Forum for recommendations for a Bush v Alba music center within a budget of < £100, but i'm sure there are one or two others here would appreciate your guidance.

OTOH, not sure about plonk at £1.25 a bottle, so if I were a billionaire I guess I would have to stretch to £150k a bottle instead of pigging it with the £15k stuff you moved on last week - sorry!   What might you recommend at £150k ? Hypothetical of course - just for the avoidance of doubt!!

Cheers

Don 

A journalist is interviewing a rock star who used to be very successful a few years ago, but is now living in misery.

"What happened to all that money you had?"

"The money? Well, half of it I spent on booze, women, drugs, parties..." replies the rock star

"But then what about the other half?" asks the journalist

The star sighs and replies: "The other half, I just wasted it."

David,

I was referring to this:

"undoubtedly they are spending it in order to buy a degree of happiness for themselves and maybe their guests but surely they would be happier donating that money so blind people in India could have thier cataracts removed so they can see their grand children for the first time or to sending street kids in brazil to school or put a roof over the head of orphans in the philippines who live on rubbish dumps and who make a living by sorting through trash 16 hours a day"

to me, "but surely they would be happier" suggests that they're not already donating to charity.

Let's not get caught up on semantics however otherwise we risk reinforcing my general point...

Phil

And, amongst other things, I was referring to this - from the same post you quoted.

" Maybe the person who bought the wine is a major philanthropist who gives millions to charity "

There is a bizarre and difficult-to-explain aspect to human behaviour. We generate great happiness (in ourselves) by helping others, and also know that this will bring us greater happiness. Yet we don't do nearly as much of this as we logically should, given the happiness it brings. Conversely, we know that the thrill of new posessions fades quickly, yet we are addicted to the short-term gratification (plenty of evidence of this in Hi-Fi Corner). I include myself in this, and yet am unwilling to change my behaviour. I don't know why.

winky

The title of Richard Dawkins' first book "the selfish gene" might hold a clue - its a fundamental survival arrangement that we inherited from xxx billion (or millions) of years of evolution. Nothing we can do about it. We can, and do, try - but.............  keep failing. This is IMHO.

Now I explicitly refered to the title of the book, because ISTR that the book referred to genes being selfish in a natural, unthinking sort of way. I don't recall him suggesting there was actually a specific gene that made us selfish. Nevertheless..............

Who knows?

Cheers

Don

Aha, i see - the rhetorical question at the bottom, followed by "i hope so" negates all of the diatribe above.  Now i get it.  Must remember in future to add meaningless one liners at the bottom of several paragraphs of bile in order to 'balance' my argument...

Don, 

Forgive me, you asked of Rod but..... I know it may be a bit 'vanilla' but a girlfriend and I were recently very taken with the 2007 Guigal Cotes du Rhone at either 9 or £10 which Waitrose sometimes have on a decent offer.

Both my brothers speak very highly of the own label St Emillion which is nearer twelve. It's a while since I've had it but I remember it as being good.

Best, Chris

Phil,

I don't know what to say to that. I don't think it's a rhetorical question. I don't think it's a meaningless one liner and I don't think it follows "paragraphs of bile." And I don't see why being followed with 'I hope so' negates or undermines it in any way. I can't see any reason for taking it to mean anything other than what it says. 

You seem angry. I wonder why? I haven't said any of the things that you object to, as far as I can make out.

Thanks Chris, I'll give them a try, nothing wrong with "vanilla".

At £10 a bottle, most wines are a bit hit and miss IMHO, so suggestions are always worth a shot, even though personal tastes probably dominate choice.

Cheers

Don

Hi David, not angry at all, really!  Rather tired of how threads here start with quite an innocuous opener and lead to bickering about things - I point this out, and then there's bickering about what i've pointed out... just tired......

Phil

Phil,

I don't really see it as bickering ( though I realise that since you do, my saying that will seem like bickering too!) I find any discussion that gives an insight into other people's thinking interesting and what some people dismiss as semantics often seems like the real nitty-gritty to me.

Sorry you're tired.

Seconded.

I may not agree with a viewpoint, but I'll deffend indefinitely the right of someone who has a point of view [different to mine] to express his view. Think back to "Voltaire" who was not wrong ...

ATB from George

George

You are right about defending people's right to express their point of view.

The problem is often that any "discussion" is soon poisoned by personal insults.

People just don't seem able to control their emotions.

Pity.

Cheers

Don

Rod,

Thank you very much for your reply.

I have always avoided "book" clubs, "record" clubs and I have to admit "wine" clubs. I'm not sure that I can fully explain why - probably a fear of loosing control of the spend-profile or getting too much of something I don't particularly like.

BBR seem to be OK in general and every now and again even Waitrose seem to come up with a little gem. I only drink about a bottle a week so I tend to buy half a dozen different bottles on speculation, then if any of them are to my liking, I go back and buy a dozen or half a dozen before they disappear.

In general, I find I buy more from BBR and I tend to enjoy the more expensive wines than the less expensive ones.

Thanks again Rod

Cheers

Don

The Wine Society is not a club of that nature, although you have to join. There is no obligation to buy anything ever. You pay £40 at the beginning, one-off fee for life. It's a co-operative (since 1870 something), and its profit-free prices can be very compelling indeed.

To such a degree that getting membership is not automatic.

But you are right - Waitrose is the best of the national supermarkets by some margin. Although I personally don't think it's quite as good as it used to be, and the northern chain, Booths, is even better.

Tom Cannavan's 'wine-pages' (.com) is a useful source of free, unbiased wine reviews and information I think. His wine of the week is usually worth seeking out, and often in the right price range for you. Although of course, sometimes it's white!!!

Cheers Don, looking forward to hearing what you make of them, especially the Guigal that we both thought was a real pleasure.

Chris

One that Mr Scott seems to have a propensity to make....

"Which?" magazine recently conducted a survey on wine suppliers and The Wine Society came out tops by a considerable margin. Some people were a bit put off with having to stump up the 40 quid to join, but IIRC this is refundable against your first order. I don't think they charge for delivery either.

I've flirted with Laithwaites in a few of its many forms over the years but, although some of their wines are very good (their Cru Beaujolais are usually very nice) I quickly tire of them, and delivery is expensive and extra.

I spend a lot of time up in The Lake District (as I type, I gaze out at the rain sweeping across the fells...), a Booths within walking distance, but although still pretty decent, it's not what it was a few years ago. I now tend to go round the corner to the Co-Op, which has some notably good stuff - the Explorer NZ Pinot Noir is a real bargain at under ten quid, likewise a Premier Cru Chablis, at a similar price. Oaked style but lovely.

The Waitrose red that I referred to above, (and have sunk half a dozen bottles so far this year) is Waitrose Barossa Red at £9.99 a bottle with 5% off for half a dozen.

Its a full bodied red and goes well with beef stews, lassangne, steaks, burgers, lamb chops and sausages etc.

I have begun to notice that some wines retain their flavour, more or less regardless of what you are eating or how long they've been open, (say 2 or 3 days) - which in my case is helpful since I probably open a bottle on a Friday night and am still drinking it next Tuesday! ( Mrs D goes for the white). The Barossa seems to keep its flavour.

Cheers

Don

Svetty,

Everybody has a limit to how much they'll spend on themselves while other people suffer. You do. Derry does. I have no reason to think mine is any 'better' or 'worse' than yours or anyone else's here. 

It's strange how simply asking a moral question - without even suggesting for a moment that one has an answer to it - always invokes these tedious accusations of 'self-righteousness'.

Self-righteousness is your word not mine.......

Svetty,

You quoted 'more moral than you'. I said self righteous. I find it hard to believe this is such a big shift in meaning that you didn't get my point.