av2 audio delay

From the manual:

"18.1.10 Lip Sync

Note: DVD video and audio can sometimes appear to be a little out of synchronisation. Lip Sync provides adjustment in 10mS steps to compensate for any apparent error.

The AV2 display will now show SYN on the left hand side and a numerical value on the right hand side. SYN refers to Lip Sync delay and the numerical value to the time delay between video and audio. Selection of a higher value delays the audio signal with respect to the video. Use the 3 or 4 keys (front panel: rotary control) to select a numerical value. Move to the next step by pressing 6 (front panel: mode button).

This step completes the AV2 Input Setup routine. To exit from Input Setup mode press the handset menu key followed by the input key (front panel: press and hold input button). Exiting from setup mode stores the settings selected for each parameter."

I can't see anywhere about it only having an effect on digital signals but also wondering if your player has lip sync adjustment built in?

Thanks for your reply, I have a pioneer bdp51 which unfortunately does not have audio delay. At the time I went from crt tv to 1080p lcd and had never experienced or thought about lip sync issues due to video lag from the extra processing in the lcd tv.

I need to get it right with the av2 or I will also need a new bluray player. I am looking at the av2 as it can pass decoded HD sound through its analogue multi inputs but if it cannot apply audio delay to these then I would not want to purchase.

cheers

I just checked the DVD5/AV2 manual.  Lip sync is not mentioned in the AV2 section, only in the DVD5 part.  Hence I believe that the AV2 does not, itself, do lip sync correction.  As to whether other AV receivers do it, you'll have to download their manuals to check for yourself.  I suggest you go to Naim's main website > support > manuals and download the AV2 manual to peruse it.  It's in the "old equipment"  section.   Perhaps an email to Naim support will answer your question more fully?

I no longer use my DVD5 for video playback, having replaced it with an Oppo 83SE.  That does lip sync correction, but to be honest I find the corrections a bit of a mixed blessing.  The amount of correction required can actually vary over the course of a single bluray or DVD!  This happened with the DVD5 too. I tend to leave the setting well alone unless it is really annoying me.  It's less of a problem with the Oppo, because that does its own upscaling.

Hi Dungassin.

I copied and pasted the above from the 'AV2 Detailed Setup' section of the manual, so it is in there. I just couldn't confirm whether it only applies to a digital signal that's been processed by the AV2. That would need some clarification from Naim themselves or maybe Tony M cab shed some light on this?

I'm away from home at the moment but although lip-sync can be adjusted on the digital inputs I'm pretty certain this doesn't apply to analogue inputs unfortunately.

Interesting, in that this thread has made realise that since I installed my Bluray player and used the multi channel analogue inputs of the AV2, I have never had lip synch problems. I am constantly changing lip synch for Sky via digital inputs as I did with previous DVD players.

Not sure if this is down to luck or that having the player doing the decoding reduces the problem.

I've very carefully checked the manuals for the DVD5 and AV2 - both my own copies as supplied with the units, and the online manuals.

The bit about lip sync is ONLY mentioned in the DVD5 section of the DVD5/AV2 manual (which is where your quote comes from, Rackkit), and not at all in the manual which actually comes with the AV2.  As the setting appears to depend on access to the on-screen menus generated by the DVD5, and there is NO mention in the AV2 part of the manual or information on how to adjust it without the on-screen menu generated by the DVD5, the implication is that the lip sync delay is being generated by the DVD5, not the AV2.  Not helpful to Zorba, as he is not using a DVD5, and his Pioneer BDP51 does not have lip sync adjustment (I have downloaded its manual and checked for myself).

Logically (to me, at least), a piece of equipment which generates lip sync delay probably needs to have direct access to the video part of the DVD/Bluray as well as the audio part.  After all, how else does it know what it's adjusting the setting against?  Hence the adjustment in my experience is done in the video player rather than the receiver.  I suppose with current AV receivers which accept HDMI directly, it would be possible.   I rarely notice any lip sync problems when using my OPPO into the AV2, either via the analogue or digital connections.  However, when using my DVD5 (historical), they did occur not infrequently.  Make of that what you will.

As I have already said, the query should be addressed to Naim Support to see if it is possible to adjust the total delay setting on the AV2.  I know you can adjust the individual speaker delay to account for varying speaker distances, but that is not the question being asked.

I guess I really should have said from the 'online' manual as i assumed that's where everyone looks these days. You'd have to find out from Naim whether the online manual i quoted from contains information not available in the paper version.

I stand corrected.  It is in the hard copy as well.

Well, I took the trouble to check to see what happens.  SYN adjustment on the AV2 has noticeable effects when using a digital input (coax1), but no discernable effect when using the MULTI input.

And it's identical to the printed version.

I wonder if your Bluray player is doing the picture scaling as well? Maybe it's can synch both the audio and video output if it is?

Good point, I will check it ou and post back, when I have time.

Thanks for the extra trouble, that's bad news for me. Was the test made with DVD5 or the OPPO? Curious as to whether you got the AV2 to display SYN and adjust audio delay using the OPPO which would mean the AV2 SYN function works without the DVD5.

ps. thanks for checking my bluray player manual I always wonder whether I missed anything.

 My bluray player manual states that whichever mix of audio and video outputs are used that the signals will always be in synch when leaving the player. I am pretty sure that it is the extra video processing in LCD tv's that is the cause.

I don't have my DVD5 connected up for video now (I only use it as a CD transport for my nDAC), so my findings were using my OPPO.   I don't really have any lip sync problems except occasionally with TV from one of my DVD recorders, which is variable and seems to depend upon how much the programme providers have messed about with their product.

I've obviously been suffering from a "senior moment" in regard to my memories of what the manual says, because I just checked the OPPO manual and its on-screen SETUP, and there is no option there to adjust lipsync on the OPPO itself. Thus my OPPO is no better than your BDP51 in that regard.  Without actually digging out a lead and plugging the DVD5 into the TV, I can't really say whether the on-screen lipsync info/adjustment was actually being generated by the DVD5 or the AV2 via its CAT cable connection (which I no longer use, of course).

All I can say is that on my 100 or so bluray discs, I have never noticed any lipsync problems when using the OPPO into the AV2's MULTI input, nor do I see any lipsync problems when using DVDs on it and the coax digital connection into the AV2.  Perhaps I am just not particularly sensitive to any problem?

I would suggest that it is still worthwhile getting the AV2.  After all, I don't see a problem with my setup, and there are those on this forum who believe that the OPPO/AV2 combination via digital connection is still better than using the MULTI input for HD audio sources.  I would disagree with that opinion, but c'est la vie.

We all have those Dungassin - Haha!

BTW, are you using a projector or tv with your cinema set up?

Cheers,

Rack.

I took the advice above and sent an email to Naim Support.

They confirmed that no audio delay adjustment is possible when using AV2 analogue multi input. Bad news confirmed for me and I thank them for their very quick response.

Strange that for many there is no experience of lip synch issues, could it be that some Lcd/Plasma tv's process the video more than others? I have a source direct button on my pioneer bdp51 maybe sending this signal to my tv may decrease the problem.

I will try when I get back to Corfu although I was planning to return with an AV2 under my arm.

My tv is a samsung lcd le40b650. When connected with hdmi there are no lip synch problems at all. Splitting the video signal via hdmi and audio via analogue to my old receiver there is very noticeable lip synch. Using hdmi then tv L+R out to the receiver still gives lip synch issues but I googled a way into the service menu and added audio delay which has solved the issue but this is only stereo I want 5.1 and audio signal not to get polluted through the tv.

A Sony 40" Bravia LCD - the AV system lives in my study.  SWMBO uses a Panasonic 42" 30TB Plasma (prezzy from me).

If you think about it, lipsync adjustment on an analogue input on ANY AV receiver/amp must go via the digital domain (unless they use an analogue tape loop?), so that means that if you could do it, then the signal processing would be digital source > analogue output from player > analogue input on amplifier > processed to digital for the lipsync delay > delay applied > processed back to analogue for output.  Far too much conversion going on, IMO. which is probably the reason they don't (as far as I know) do it.

Thus, AFAICS there is no amplifer/receiver which will do what you want to an analogue input.  Hence your choices are :

1. Accept the possible limitation and get an AV2.  This is what I did, and I don't have a problem with it.

2. Get an AV2 and use only the digital inputs, allowing you to apply lipsync correction

3. Get an AV receiver with HDMI and onboard HD decoding, connect it up (if so desired) as in my stereo/av integration FAQ.  This will let you apply lipsynch correction assuming your chosen AV receiver includes it as part of its features.

Good luck! 

Agree with Dungassin. Take a chance with the AV2 whilst you're over here to grab one (and they can go for a fraction of their new price these days). If it doesn't work out, you shouldn't have a problem selling it on again at little or no loss.

Just when I finally made a decision I am back to working out which way to go again. Oh well it will only take a few more months and forever.......

I am actually watching one and waiting for a dealer to come back to me on another one.

I will try and go back with one.