NAP 250DR/XPS vs 300DR

The XPS would be an upgrade to the 272, rather than to the 250. So it's less a case of 250/XPS vs 300 and more a case of 272/XPS with 250 vs bare 272 with 300.

I think generally accepted wisdom would be that you'd be better off adding an XPS to the preamp (and source) than going for a 300 over an already very capable 250. The 300 may be lovely, but any power amp can only deal with what it's fed, hence 'source first' being the rule of thumb.

The XPS is an important upgrade for the 272 only, it separates the delicate electronics and power supply. Depending on your speakers, the 250DR should be enough amp.

As good as the 272 is, with or without an XPS, I might question whether the 300 can really live up to enough of it's potential to present VFM in that setup.

There are definately people out there with 272/300 setups and without a doubt it sounds good and is a step up from a 250. Just may not be the best balance of budget on a 3-4 box system to get the best results. Definately inclined to think 272/XPS/250 will perform better than 272/300. If you want to take it higher from there, moving away from a 272 onto a seperate streamer and pre is a better place to go but then you are getting into a whole other box count which may not be where you want to go.

Thanks very much all the replies!
I have the SN2 and I'm looking for the right upgrade path which would be the following:

1: 250DR
2: trade up SN2 to 272
3: XPS

How does it look, what do you guys think?

What is your current source?

If I had a SN2 I would be auditioning/considering an NDS + PSU as well.

Richard

I'm wondering what streamer you have at the moment. If I had a Supernait 2 already, I'd probably get an NDX and then add an XPS DR to that. 

There must be some reason for not going that obvious route?

My current source is Macbook Pro USB / Chord DAC. 

SN2/NDX/XPS costs very similar compared to 272/250/XPS and even though I never had a chance to A/B test them so let me know if I' wrong but I guess the 272/250/XPS combo is a better package with a very similar price so that's why I'm considering.

Do you intend keeping the same source or will you be buying a NAS and/or switching to streaming?

If staying with the Mac/DAC (which Chord DAC?), have you considered going with a 282/HCDR/250DR?

BTW what speakers do you have?

A suggested above, the 272 only really makes sense if you use streaming from a NAS. Even then, just getting an NDX seems more straightforward. But why change at all? 

the DR amps do change (according to me) the source first rule. These DR amps have so little noise and distortion (basically, none) they can get the best of a 272 level source/preamp.

there is no way I would ever buy an NDX/SN2 instead of 272/250DR.

sjbabbey posted:

Do you intend keeping the same source or will you be buying a NAS and/or switching to streaming?

If staying with the Mac/DAC (which Chord DAC?), have you considered going with a 282/HCDR/250DR?

BTW what speakers do you have?

PMC 20:26 and the DAC will be replaced by the 2qute.
Would be so convenient to have a dedicated streaming source but I would not pay thousands for it to be honest. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

A suggested above, the 272 only really makes sense if you use streaming from a NAS. Even then, just getting an NDX seems more straightforward. But why change at all? 

Well, just wanted to get the best out of my budget, that's all. 

analogmusic posted:

the DR amps do change (according to me) the source first rule. These DR amps have so little noise and distortion (basically, none) they can get the best of a 272 level source/preamp.

there is no way I would ever buy an NDX/SN2 instead of 272/250DR.

As far as I know the SN2 has some DR. 

Don't think I'm trying to put you off the 272: I'm listening to mine right now and it's absolutely brilliant, and will be miles better than a Qute into a Supernait 2. I was simply intrigued as to why you'd swap to it from a Chord DAC and the SN2. 

Fazakas Tamas posted:

analogmusic posted:

the DR amps do change (according to me) the source first rule. These DR amps have so little noise and distortion (basically, none) they can get the best of a 272 level source/preamp.

there is no way I would ever buy an NDX/SN2 instead of 272/250DR.

As far as I know the SN2 has some DR. 

Only the power supply to the preamp is DR, not the regulation for the power amp, which does seem to be something of a game changer. 

Fazakas Tamas posted:

My current source is Macbook Pro USB / Chord DAC. 

SN2/NDX/XPS costs very similar compared to 272/250/XPS and even though I never had a chance to A/B test them so let me know if I' wrong but I guess the 272/250/XPS combo is a better package with a very similar price so that's why I'm considering.

Your right in that the 272/250/XPS Seems like a better package than SN2/NDX/XPS as you have more options to upgrade at a later date.. Although there may be some differences in sound and presentation, and also perhaps a preference for the SN2 options with your speakers and saving yourself from upgrade nervosa.

Fazakas Tamas posted:

sjbabbey posted:

Do you intend keeping the same source or will you be buying a NAS and/or switching to streaming?

If staying with the Mac/DAC (which Chord DAC?), have you considered going with a 282/HCDR/250DR?

BTW what speakers do you have?

PMC 20:26 and the DAC will be replaced by the 2qute.
Would be so convenient to have a dedicated streaming source but I would not pay thousands for it to be honest. 

Won't getting the 272 (a streaming preamp with its own built-in DAC) make the  Chord 2qute DAC redundant?

If you're going down the 272/XPS/250DR path, using the 272 as your streamer you might be better served by selling your existing DAC to help fund your upgrade and buy a NAS for your music files.

Hungryhalibut posted:

Don't think I'm trying to put you off the 272: I'm listening to mine right now and it's absolutely brilliant, and will be miles better than a Qute into a Supernait 2. I was simply intrigued as to why you'd swap to it from a Chord DAC and the SN2. 

I know I know, I love your comments and you already helped me a lot! The reason why I'd swap it is because I've tested the 272/300DR and blew my mind however it is way more than I can spend ATM but I would go on this path with the 272/250DR for the near future and adding the XPS DR later. It would be even better if it's achievable with SN2.

sjbabbey posted:

Won't getting the 272 (a streaming preamp with its own built-in DAC) make the  Chord 2qute DAC redundant?

If you're going down the 272/XPS/250DR path, using the 272 as your streamer you might be better served by selling your existing DAC to help fund your upgrade and buy a NAS for your music files.

Yes, you're right on that, the DAC will be unnecessary which will simplify my system.

The SN power amp is never going to be as good as the 250DR, so there are going to be swings and roundabouts. The 272/250 is very neat and tidy and you get to control your music with the very good Naim app. You need to try the two interfaces (that, and however you control your Mac) to see which you (and anyone else who uses the system) prefer. You could of course get the 272 first, and sell the dac, and then swap the SN2 for a 250DR, as an alternative. Don't forget that for an amazingly cheap £300, you can have the 272 fitted with an excellent FM radio. The Archers haven't sounded this good for many years, when I sold my NAT02. 

TOBYJUG posted:

Your right in that the 272/250/XPS Seems like a better package than SN2/NDX/XPS as you have more options to upgrade at a later date.. Although there may be some differences in sound and presentation, and also perhaps a preference for the SN2 options with your speakers and saving yourself from upgrade nervosa.

Hm... I was just thinking that it will sound better but yeah, you are right, may be different as well. Good point! 

Interestingly, I am going to try and demo a 2qute to run into my 272. I know it sounds odd but I really want to run Roon and the digital in on the 272 is not giving a good sound from the Mac Mini. I'll try and borrow one and let you know how it sounds.

 I'll try and borrow one and let you know how it sounds.

Keen to know!  

I'm not an expert on this streaming stuff but here's my take.  The 272 is an excellent solution but it really needs a XPS to bring out its best.  If you are looking for a 3 or 4 box system as a permanent solution with no further upgrade potential then combined with a 250 or 300 DR then it's just the ticket. 

However, to these ears a NDX/XPS/282/HC/250 is a considerably richer musical experience. So IF you intend further upgrades in the future I would seriously consider a NDS/XPS with your SN. I've heard the pairing it's excellent!!

The NDX and 282 system has six boxes, four mains leads and costs about £6,000 more. It's certainly better, but the fact that the 272 system is simple and harder to upgrade is very much a positive to me. On its own spur, a nice stand and with Powerlines and Superlumina wires, it makes a very convincing setup.