Replacing K20/NACA4 with something more discreet

Posted by: Andy Barratt on 24 January 2016

Firstly, I'm assuming that K20 is basically the same product as NACA4. If my assumption is incorrect I'm going to make a few mistakes in my next paragraph.

I started on my Naim journey a year ago, with an old 62/90 combo. I read that it was imperative to use the right kind of speaker cable with it due to the NAP expecting particular levels of resistance etc. I could understand it in theory, even though I'm no engineer. And so, unable to afford 6m of NACA5, I read that K20 was basically the same product as NACA4 - and bought some - figuring that at the time of the NAP90, NACA4 would've been the cable to buy anyway.

Of course the biggest problem with it is how untidy it can be, as it's bulky and stiff - i find it quite unmanageable.

I've since upgraded my 62/90 combo to a UQ2, and so I assume the old rules of resistance don't apply and the only reason you'd seek out NACA4/K20 or NACA5 for pairing Naim gear is because you like the synergy.

Even compared to NACA5, K20 isn't the most flexible cable in the world, so I'm wondering how much of a compromise moving to something a lot more discreet would be - say something like the Sarsen?

Posted on: 25 January 2016 by hungryhalibut

If you want a more discreet cable, Chord Rumour and Odyssey are both very good. Going to the Sarsen is probably a step down too far. The only thing with these Chord cables is that they lack some of the involvement of the Naim cable, but do present things in a very organised way and a very easy to listen to. Just don't be surprised if you find your interest in the music waning over a period.

Another one to try is Tellurium. I used the Q Black very successfully with PMC speakers. It's £50 a metre but you can get it used for a lot less, and they make cheaper versions too. The Q Black keeps the involvement of the Naim cable, but is much clearer and more insightful. I didn't find it a success with Naim speakers though.

If you do try any of these alternatives, get them used so that you can sell them on at little loss. If you buy new, they will lose at least half their value as soon as you take them out of the box.

Posted on: 25 January 2016 by james n

Worth a look at the Van Damme range of cables Andy. Discrete, easy to lay and very reasonable prices. They don't look impressive but are decent quality cables with a good amount of copper in them.

Posted on: 25 January 2016 by Mike-B

if you really want tidy, I'll add a vote for Chord Odyssey & 2nd pref for the smaller Rumour.

They are simple round white & a reasonably small diameter (compared to K20 at least) they're particularly easy to bend & shape & they stay put, inert & with no tendency to spring back.

Not so sure with the TQB, I have not played with it too much other than listen, yes its good, but its BLACK

Posted on: 25 January 2016 by Frank Abela

You've never even heard your system playing at full capability. Personally, I don't really see the point in buying a Ferrari and using remoulds on it, but then I guess that's your shout isn't it?

I like Sarsen a lot. You'll lose resolution and scale but you'll gain in terms of balance. I always found K20 to be too warm and ploddy. Incidentally, K20 is quite different from NACA4 and NACA5, warmer and ploddier by far than the Naims.

Sarsen is a pure copper cable and very reasonably priced for the performance. Sure, it's nowhere near as good as NACA5, but we do sell UQ2s with it for that discreet solution. If you can stretch to Rumour, that is a better solution, somewhat warmer than Sarsen (so possibly more to your liking) and almost as discreet with bags more resolution - arguably better than K20 in this respect.

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

Posted on: 25 January 2016 by feeling_zen

If you don't want to go crazy, Atlas cables work well with Naim. I use Atlas Equator 2.0 between a UQ2 and some low cost QAcoustics 2010is, and Atlas Hyper 2,0 on a 250.2 feeding PMC 20.23s.

I found the Hyper 2.0 to perform better than the A5 despite being lower cost.

Posted on: 25 January 2016 by ssmith

I have a UQ2 also and initially used NACA5. Like yourself found it completely impractical and had to find an alternative that wasn't crazy priced. Tried a few and went with Chord Odyssey 2. Found it had a slightly different sound but worked well with UQ2 and Neat Iotas. In some areas I found it improved sound quality but I think in part this could be down to the decent solder job by my dealer.

It also improved the bass situation for me as I have my iotas wall mounted and with the NACA5 they were a little boomy(if thats a word). I would say check the Odyssey out, it is also very manageable.

Hope this helps

Sam

Posted on: 25 January 2016 by Andy Barratt

ssmith posted:
I have a UQ2 also and initially used NACA5. Like yourself found it completely impractical and had to find an alternative that wasn't crazy priced. Tried a few and went with Chord Odyssey 2. Found it had a slightly different sound but worked well with UQ2 and Neat Iotas. In some areas I found it improved sound quality but I think in part this could be down to the decent solder job by my dealer.
It also improved the bass situation for me as I have my iotas wall mounted and with the NACA5 they were a little boomy(if thats a word). I would say check the Odyssey out, it is also very manageable.

Hope this helps
Sam

Interesting - I have a pair of Neat Motive SX3s - so I guess the one up from the Ioatas? I find them every so slightly boomy and so anything that might tame that is always welcome. Odyssey is a bit out of my price range at the moment however.

Posted on: 25 January 2016 by Frank Abela

Crikey, SX3's boomy? Are they on stands? Have you placed them about 30cm from the rear wall? That's pretty much all that's required to ensure they don't boom, unless the room is really awkward. I've always thought of them as a bit bass-light.

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

Posted on: 25 January 2016 by Andy Barratt

Frank Abela posted:
Crikey, SX3's boomy? Are they on stands? Have you placed them about 30cm from the rear wall? That's pretty much all that's required to ensure they don't boom, unless the room is really awkward. I've always thought of them as a bit bass-light.
Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

Thanks Frank - boomy is probably a bad description. I think I know what boom actually is, having bought the neats to replace a pair of floor standing Monitor Audio speakers that sounded fine in an open plan apartment, but were unlistenable in the small cottage I then moved to.

Yes I've got the Neat's 30cm from the wall, but don't have them on stands - not practical unfortunately. I have them at ear height though, sitting atop a tv bench about 1.5m apart from each other. They're also sitting atop some strips of foam that I bought - which is supposed to be good for isolating speakers that have to be sat on desks etc. I did originally have them sat on some rubber (not sure of 'actual' material) atacama pods, but I was never happy with the sound. I don't know if it was the extra few cm's of height the foam granted, or the foam itself that made the difference, but it was a huge difference.

When i said boom, what I really meant was that obviously with some recordings that are bass heavy, I am far too conscientious a neighbour to play them at a decent volume, as I get quite the slam from the Neats. It's not boom in that it's perfectly listenable.

So I guess if I could find a compromise that might tame the slam, I'd be happy! I note that you say I'm not hearing my UQ2's full potential, and look forward to any suggestions you might have given the above. Thanks!