ND5XS + Nait XS2 upgrade path

I initially we from a marantz na7004 to a nd5 xs and the difference was big - lot better with thw naim...  I am of course assuming that the n7004 is comparable to the cxn... maybe the cnx is better, I don't know this... but the nd5 xs was a major improvement.. I got a further improvement is sound quality with the addition of the xp5 xs power supply... 

Additionally every review I have seen on the nd5 xs has been very positive... 

I would be surprised if you also don't find improvement in sound quality... but remember it will take time for the streamer to bed in.. even though mine was a used model, it still took at least a week to come on song..

I own both the xs2 and nd5xs. Did some extensive auditioning of standmount speakers and the KEF LS50 just didn't do it for me. I auditioned them twice, because I thought it was me (speakers are hyped globally). Great soundstage but way too harsh for my taste. Just not comfortable to listen to. I ended up with Audio Physic Step 25. A very open sounding speaker, sweet treble, surprising good base for their size, revealing with bad recordings though. 

So I think it's your speakers. Off course the nd5xs is a very good streamer however your speakers determine the sound of your system for at least 60%. Try to audition different speakers first.

YER posted:

I own both the xs2 and nd5xs. Did some extensive auditioning of standmount speakers and the KEF LS50 just didn't do it for me. I auditioned them twice, because I thought it was me (speakers are hyped globally). Great soundstage but way too harsh for my taste. Just not comfortable to listen to. I ended up with Audio Physic Step 25. A very open sounding speaker, sweet treble, surprising good base for their size, revealing with bad recordings though. 

So I think it's your speakers. Off course the nd5xs is a very good streamer however your speakers determine the sound of your system for at least 60%. Try to audition different speakers first.

Yeah I do believe the LS50s is the bottle neck of my system and I have recently traded them in. Now owns a pair of Neat Elite SX and it really brings music and sound quality to another level.   Much better sound stage. Everything sounds much more balanced. Sweet vocals and timing is spot on. Impressive bass as well. I'm really happy with it. Truly great chemistry between Naim and Neat! 

Would you dealer let you borrow the Naim streamer before buying it?

At that level, I find Naim works very well with the very modestly priced Qacoustics range (20 and 30). It may not sound like a sensible match but it really has synergy. I used to sell KEF speakers but to be honest never got on well with them on the lower end of the range. Something more traditional like Qacoustics 3050 or 3020 which are a bit lower cost than the KEFs may balance better.

No one wants to be swapping gear every few months (or even years). If you can push your dealer to allow a home demo (or even bribe him a bit) it may save a lot of money and wasted time in the long run. Get the source, amp, speakers matched and you will know it. Upgrades should be just that, upgrades, not repairs to resolve problems. So once the basics are right and music is enjoyuable again, then you can start thinking about things like adding power supplies and/or power amps.

You'll get no argument from me. I made the same switch two years ago. Same general findings. I surmised that there's a reason folks pay more for higher quality gear.

Right on!!! It's simply so much better! I am curious how will it compare to a 202/200 setup.

That is a lot of gears you have purchased within the space of 2 months! :-)

Yeah I was in search of the sound quality that I didn't know I cared so much about... But I'm happy with what I'm hearing now.

Nic Chan posted:

Yeah I was in search of the sound quality that I didn't know I cared so much about... But I'm happy with what I'm hearing now.

Now your problem is the SN2 really needs a NDX.

And, of course, the NDX needs an XPSDR. And so it goes. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

And, of course, the NDX needs an XPSDR. And so it goes. 

Woah... Slow down...  He needs the HICAP first...

Whoops, I forgot, no system is complete without some Super Lumina. 

May I suggest that you skip the NDX and move to 272/250DR instead. Same footprint, just slightly "thicker" in dimension!

But he's just got a Supernait...

FWIW this thread is extremely valuable as I'm about to embark on a similar quest.  Reading this thread, I'm now leaning strongly for the 272/200DR combo instead of a SN2/NDX pairing.  Sure the 250DR is better but I can't afford it right now and would rather upgrade the 272's PS first.

If you are getting a 272 there is no point in a 200DR, as the 272 is self powered. Get a 200 used for less than half the price. 

Will you guys stop confusing the poor chap? 

Few weeks ago we've told him not to change anything. Clearly Nic is not getting good advice from his dealer.

Nic:

Given your room size, I think SuperNait2 and NDX, plus eventually XPS is as far as you want to go. Alternatively N272 + 200 or 250 for similar money. Plus XPS. Those are two slightly different set ups though.

SuperNait2 will give you attack, good bass control. 250DR will give you even more bass and warmth to the sound. Both are rated at 80W into 8  Ohms. And they sound different. 250DR is more tricky with speaker matchnig. SuperNait2 is easier to match.

If I were you I'd cancell the order of ND5XS. You will not like what it does with the Supernait. NDX is a natural partner for the SuperNait2.

As you wrote, you like your sound darker, etc. A good interconnect will give you that. Try TelluriumQ Black or Black Diamond.

Adam

Hungryhalibut posted:

If you are getting a 272 there is no point in a 200DR, as the 272 is self powered. Get a 200 used for less than half the price. 

Excellent, thanks for the info. I hope I didn't hijack this thread. The OP has a similar setup as I and I'm looking to upgrade as well.  Just looking for a nice overall upgrade from XS2/ND5XS/HiCapDR. I'm hoping the NAP200/NAC-N272 will do the trick else more money for the NAP250DR

I had an ND5XS. Was persuaded to add XP5XS - minor i provement. Then heard a Hugo, and added that, selling the XP5XS - significant improvement. Then, starting with a quest to replace a noisy NAS and developing from there, I ended up replacing the ND5XS with a Mac Mini running Audirvana together with a usb/spdif isolator/convertor (Gustard U12) into the Hugo, giving even better SQ and overall significantly cheaper than ND5XS+XP5XS+silent NAS, making it an excellent upgrade.

others have compared NDX or NDS with Mac Mini / Audirvana / Hugo and come to similar conclusions re SQ.

Adam Zielinski posted:

If I were you I'd cancell the order of ND5XS. You will not like what it does with the Supernait. NDX is a natural partner for the SuperNait2.

As you wrote, you like your sound darker, etc. A good interconnect will give you that. Try TelluriumQ Black or Black Diamond.

Adam

+1 to the part about not liking ND5.  It will sound terribly thin with the SN2.  Personally, I am also not a huge fan of the NDX sound.  I like the convenience of streaming and the Naim app is  great but I've opted for a third party DAC.  If I could start over again I'd probably get one of the Aurender players + the Berkeley USB + a nice DAC like the Hugo.  This would sound better to most people and cost less than the NDX.

Seriously though...,  Rethink the ND5.

Nic Chan posted:

Thanks for all the info and yes I was told not to buy anything else but the temptation to get the sound quality right for my ears overruled everything... Every time when I listen to songs that I do know well with my xs2, they sounded so harsh to my ears and that's the real reason behind why I want to get it right. (Since money spent but not getting a sound quality I am happy with... No home demo here is the biggest problem for all the purchase mistakes I made previously!!! It's like playing roulette!) So striking a good deal with the dealer to trade in my XS2 to a Supernait 2 is the first step. Step 2 a one year old used NDX is waiting for me to pick up! Base on everything will sound right at this point with the NDX and Supernait 2 in place with a respectable sound quality that I like, upgrades will happen in a much slower pace and more time to enjoy the music that's my ultimate goal . And Marcus please make yourself home. I know how hard it is to find relevant information online for you to make decision on expensive purchases. Thank you all and I love this Naim forum! Best information and suggestions that I can find.

Thanks I will.  I actually went and listened to a NDX/SN2 today. Yes this forum is really great, but sometimes its gets confusing with all the different options and once you hear good sound it's hard to go home and listen to your own system w/out being too critical.

Nic: good to hear. Don't forget a decent DIN-DIN interconnect. TelluriumQ Black to begin with. It's relatively modestly priced and brings on a huge sound improvement, whilst retaining the Naim sound.

Remember: SuperNait2 if new, will take up to 3 months to sound 'right'. It is a long time, but worth it! Trust me - been there myself

One more thing: like all high-performance audio, Naim is quite sensitive to placement. If I recall you already bought Fraim?