NAP250DR or NAP200DR

I have a lot of sympathy with your comments in relation to the 200 and 250.2, and I for one prefer the former. But the 250DR is a different beast, with none of the bloat and slowness, and to me it sounds much more like a 300 than a 250.2. Anyway, that's just my opinion. 

Mine too.

I own 200 and 250 DR.

I love them both. The 250 DR has amazing bass, inky black silence from which notes emerge, but the 200 is no slouch, it is a matter of money. Both will give you that dynamic and musical Naim sound which we all love.

the 250 is more expensive as it has a massive, huge (1000 VA) transformer compared to the 200 (430VA).

This massive transformer is needed because the 250 is a regulated amp. This means there are actually 2 amplifiers inside the box, one that controls the power supply to the amp, and one that actually amplifies.

So it is, and sounds more powerful than the unregulated 200. 

I have yet to test this, but according to many, the 250 can drive many difficult speakers.

Also all of the Naim hi end amplifiers are regulated. (250,300 and 500) - they have more resolution, control, soundstage and power compared to the unregulated ones.

According to one explanation regulation in an amp is like a turbocharger in a car, it can make the amplifier much more powerful than simply adding a bigger transformer and leaving the supply rails unregulated.

the 250 DR has the latest 009 transistors used in the statement amp, and also is made of non-ferrous materials, which avoids vibration in the transistor legs, due to huge amount (dozens of amps) of current going in one transistor.

the 200 does not use 009 transistors, apparently such high levels of current are not generated, and hence custom transistors are not needed. 

Naim do not take shortcuts. Other companies use parallel transistors, but this reduces the drive and musicality, but due huge amount of current in one transistor, Naim had to custom design this very special 009 transistor. I'm not aware of any other company that uses this level of customer designed transistor in their amps.

While the 200 is amazingly good, the 250 DR quite a bit better and enough to be the last amplifier you will ever need.

analogmusic posted:

I own 200 and 250 DR.

I love them both. The 250 DR has amazing bass, inky black silence from which notes emerge, but the 200 is no slouch, it is a matter of money. Both will give you that dynamic and musical Naim sound which we all love.

the 250 is more expensive as it has a massive, huge (1000 VA) transformer compared to the 200 (430VA).

 

 

You should check that, the 250 DR has a  400VA, transformer the 200DR a 300VA, I think you have the NAP500 mixed up with the 250.  

Jude2012 posted:

Interesting to hear about differences between using: a HiCap DR and 200DR vs. 200DR only, with a 202.

Is it possible to describe the differences ?  

Was the 202 powered by the NAPSC  also?

Jude

Hi jude2012, in both cases th nac 202 was powered with naps can as well. When powered by high cap dr as compared to nap200dr, th soundstage seems wider and the sound seems less thin.

Badlands these are the peak transient numbers you have quoted 

250 and 300 share the same 1030 va transformer

paristhea if you're in Dubai you can get my number from Dubai audio or drop me an email in my profile and I'll be happy to show you 200 vs 250dr

im pretty sure you will buy the 250dr after the demo

analogmusic posted:

Badlands these are the peak transient numbers you have quoted 

250 and 300 share the same 1030 va transformer

paristhea if you're in Dubai you can get my number from Dubai audio or drop me an email in my profile and I'll be happy to show you 200 vs 250dr

im pretty sure you will buy the 250dr after the demo

 

 

 

Good morning analogmusic. 

Thank you for your comment and offer, which I like to take. But I can not find your email in your profile. I could ask Adil but what is your name please, or please send me your email. I think you should be able to get mine from my profile? 

I started with a 172/200 combo, and soon upgraded to the 272 + XPS, a major improvement, feeding Dynaudio Confidence C1 Platinum speakers which are somewhat hard to drive and control, so I again upgraded to the 250DR.  With the 250DR the sound got much "bigger" - not louder, but there was quite a bit more of just about everything: deep bass, which is much tighter and better controlled, better dynamics, definition and clarity, with an improved soundstage and overall musicality.  To my ears the 250DR isn't faster or slower than the 200, but again it sounds a lot "bigger," making the C1s sound almost like floor standers - far more so than the difference in output power alone would create (a review I read reported the actual measured output of the 250DR at 192 watts into 4 ohms per channel while the 250 measured 162 watts @ 4 ohms).  If your speakers are efficient and easy to control the 200 might be all you need, but the 250DR has a lot to offer for the additional cost.  I hope this helps in making your decision.

it never ceases to astonish me how a 250, 250.2 or DR (which is way better than any 200 you could think of) partnered with anything less than hicapped or / SC NAC282 +dedicated streamer would really expose its goodness.

I've yet to listen to the highly praised all-in-one 272, but the 172XS was far below the bare ND5XS, with XS or152/ 155XS ,not to mention the pointlessness in a NAP 200  set-up.  

ND5XS/XPS or NDX with 202/200 being the sweet spot there.

Something tells me this new product would be ideally matched to a 200 , to replace the older 202 and entering the streaming era with a cost effective solution, but no more than that other than reducing the box count, too.

Or just a stepping stone if partnered with th great 250, so be careful and always have a plan in mind !

Yes thanks.  I decided to wait till i can listen to both, the NAP250 and the NAP200.  Not in a hurry, i already have 2 reasonable systems that i enjoy.

And i have more or less decided that i will get the 250DR, at some point.  Unless the 200 blows me out.

As analogmusic said, the 250DR may be the last power amplifier i will buy.

Antonio1 posted

I've yet to listen to the highly praised all-in-one 272, but the 172XS was far below the bare ND5XS, with XS or152/ 155XS ,not to mention the pointlessness in a NAP 200  set-up.  

Something tells me this new product would be ideally matched to a 200 , to replace the older 202 and entering the streaming era with a cost effective solution, but no more than that other than reducing the box count, too.

Or just a stepping stone if partnered with th great 250, so be careful and always have a plan in mind !

Something may tell you that, but I suggest that's its not your ears - assuming that by editing the post I have not changed your meaning. The 272, when powered by the XPS DR and coupled with the 250 DR, is not simply a cost effective low box count system, but a superb system, period - and one that comes so close to bigger and more expensive setups that in the real world there is little between them. 

You need to give it a listen - I suspect you will be surprised. 

This is from the what hi-fi review of the NAP 250.2. 

"A lot smaller than the mighty NAP500 flagship, this black box has been refined over its 27-year life, has been turned into a professional version and has been used in studios all over the place – it's a serious piece of kit.

And on this showing you can see why: it might ‘only' deliver 80W per channel, but anyone familiar with Naim equipment will know that there's rather more to it than just a nominal power figure.

Will drive just about any speakers you throw at it

This amp will drive just about any speakers you throw at it with almost disdainful ease, taking them by the scruff of the neck and getting them moving in totally convincing fashion."

Hungryhalibut posted:

Antonio1 posted

I've yet to listen to the highly praised all-in-one 272, but the 172XS was far below the bare ND5XS, with XS or152/ 155XS ,not to mention the pointlessness in a NAP 200  set-up.  

Something tells me this new product would be ideally matched to a 200 , to replace the older 202 and entering the streaming era with a cost effective solution, but no more than that other than reducing the box count, too.

Or just a stepping stone if partnered with th great 250, so be careful and always have a plan in mind !

Something may tell you that, but I suggest that's its not your ears - assuming that by editing the post I have not changed your meaning. The 272, when powered by the XPS DR and coupled with the 250 DR, is not simply a cost effective low box count system, but a superb system, period - and one that comes so close to bigger and more expensive setups that in the real world there is little between them. 

You need to give it a listen - I suspect you will be surprised. 

you've assumed right ,as I've stated I've yet to hear it.

Extremely  good feedbacks on it I know from everywhere, as always happens with the lunch of a new product, but my ears have always perceived the best performances from separates ,especially coming from certain sources nd preamplifiers when 'great' Power amplifiers as the one mentioned above comes into play.

This doesn't mean at all it can't sound fine with alternatives based on personal choices.

I auditioned the 272 with both the 200DR and the 250DR at length. with the music I like and with my Ovator S400's I preferred the 200DR, as did my wife. Price wasnt a consideration really but seeing as we preferred the cheaper amp It was a win win.

Tyranniux posted:

I auditioned the 272 with both the 200DR and the 250DR at length. with the music I like and with my Ovator S400's I preferred the 200DR, as did my wife. Price wasnt a consideration really but seeing as we preferred the cheaper amp It was a win win.

Kindly explain why the 200 was preferred. 

Please note that the DR in the 200 model does nothing to the N272.  So 200 or 200DR will sound exactly the same with the 272

I can't see any situation where a 200 is better than a 250 DR - I have both and the difference is very audible between then, the 250 DR very easily justifies the extra money.

Paristhea posted:

Tyranniux posted:

I auditioned the 272 with both the 200DR and the 250DR at length. with the music I like and with my Ovator S400's I preferred the 200DR, as did my wife. Price wasnt a consideration really but seeing as we preferred the cheaper amp It was a win win.

Kindly explain why the 200 was preferred. 

Please note that the DR in the 200 model does nothing to the N272.  So 200 or 200DR will sound exactly the same with the 272

Agreed. I was referring to the DR element though. 

Analogmusic, I asked you yesterday also. How can I contact you, I do like to listen to the power amps as DA doesn't have them in stock at present. There is no email in your profile

I did respond to an email you sent to my wall.

Anyway I have added my email to my profile now, with my system details.

Paristhea posted:

Tyranniux posted:

I auditioned the 272 with both the 200DR and the 250DR at length. with the music I like and with my Ovator S400's I preferred the 200DR, as did my wife. Price wasnt a consideration really but seeing as we preferred the cheaper amp It was a win win.

Kindly explain why the 200 was preferred. 

Please note that the DR in the 200 model does nothing to the N272.  So 200 or 200DR will sound exactly the same with the 272

the presentation of the 200 made certain details more audible on many of the tracks I auditioned them with, I just preferred it. I do belive that other things were changed in the design of the 200dr vs the 200 so whilst the DR may not have any effect on the 272, the 200 supposedly doesnt sound exactly the same as the 200dr.

Paristhea posted:

Yes thanks.  I decided to wait till i can listen to both, the NAP250 and the NAP200.  Not in a hurry, i already have 2 reasonable systems that i enjoy.

And i have more or less decided that i will get the 250DR, at some point.  Unless the 200 blows me out.

As analogmusic said, the 250DR may be the last power amplifier i will buy.

It won't , that's the 250(let alone the improved version) which will blow you out.

May as well be the last power amplifier you'll ever buy, just be assured it 's going to be an expensive journey partnering it with the best 'heart' of a Naim set-up (i.e. sources, PSU's  and NAC )you can afford, otherwise a pain.

Tyranniux posted:

Paristhea posted:

Tyranniux posted:

I auditioned the 272 with both the 200DR and the 250DR at length. with the music I like and with my Ovator S400's I preferred the 200DR, as did my wife. Price wasnt a consideration really but seeing as we preferred the cheaper amp It was a win win.

Kindly explain why the 200 was preferred. 

Please note that the DR in the 200 model does nothing to the N272.  So 200 or 200DR will sound exactly the same with the 272

the presentation of the 200 made certain details more audible on many of the tracks I auditioned them with, I just preferred it. I do belive that other things were changed in the design of the 200dr vs the 200 so whilst the DR may not have any effect on the 272, the 200 supposedly doesnt sound exactly the same as the 200dr.

Thanks. It just goes to prove that nothing beats the audition. 

I did buy the N272 blind, but I haven't regretted it for a moment.  However I will not do this with the power amps. I was also advised to spend some money on a good PSU for the N272, so I will do it step by step now. 

About the 200 and 200DR you are all correct, I should not have used the word "exactly" but should have said "almost" the same. 

FWIW - if you love the sound of the 250DR and can afford one, go for it. A wonderful amp. If you're fine with the sound of the 200DR then a second-hand 200 would be a great option, and save yourself some cash. You can sell it for what you bought it for if you want to upgrade later.

I love my 200, which I bought for just over a grand, a year old. Never done a direct comparison with either a 200DR or a 250DR, but with my 172 it sounds very sweet indeed.